Particuarly preflop, wanted villan to shove OVP, but I might have raised a tad much on the flop. Turn is unlikely to help him, and river we're both pot committed.
Joined: Mar '11
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I dont think that i would have called the pre-flop raise but other than that, you played the hand really well. The flop was huge for you and you would have been really unlucky if that turn card had helped him
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hey!
I am more sng/mtt player but i would fold 56s utg in first hand. I like ur raise on flop so i dont think it was too huge( u did charge him nice for his draw with two over cards )
Second hand u played ok. when i saw river i was thinking i hope he didnt call that
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My preflop reasoning was basically odds and position, getting good odds against overcards, and even against a larger pair I'm not in THAT bad shape. But I will admit it was relatively loose, and it is something I need to tweak in my game.
Yeah the flop was huge, but the fact he didn't 3-bet shove the flop lead me to believe something like a big ace, possibly something like 77-99. Just so happens he hit a huge flop as well, surprised he didn't go over the top. I wasn't folding though, fully prepared to stack off against his whole range. Would have been a sweat though!
------------ Yeah, the turn was so 50/50, definately folding unless the player on my right comes in. Just so happens it's the ultimate action card, and I found the fold pretty easy. He played the hand completely like a draw, and I really don't like the way player 1 played the hand. Leading that last street was disastrous, I kind of prefer a check call if you're folding to a shove anyway, save the 35c or whatever it was, because you're probably calling around that anyway. Would have been so much harder to lay down if the guy to my right lead/flatted.
Edited by tonespoker (21 October 2014 @ 09:33 GMT)
Joined: May '12
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I like your play in the first hand... I wouldn't have done anything differently. On a 6-max table a simple rule to use is - Anything you want to play, raise. Anything you raise, call a 3-bet with. Anything that you would raise with, you should also 3-bet with if in position on the original raiser. Never call a 4-bet (shove or fold).
After the flop - no major talking points...
The Q9, following the above rules, I would recommend a 3-bet up to around $0.14. If you get 4-bet, you fold and have lost $0.14. If they call, they are likely to both check to the raiser so you can follow up bet your straight draw... after the turn, hopefully they both check again and you get a free river.
Playing it this way - it's always you in control of the hand.... Also, if you get check raised at any point of the hand, you can safely assume you're beat and muck your hand.
Joined: Feb '11
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1st hand: 56s UTG is surely a bit too loose. It depends on table dynamics, if the table was very tight then it's a fine open, otherwise just open fold. My default opening range would probably start no looser than T9s there. However, there can always be arguments to be found (tight table as I said before or a very bad fish you want to target). To his 3bet calling is surely close again, but I think it's fine based on stacksizea and that you're in position postflop.
2nd hand is fine, you could 3bet pre depending on opener, but flatting in position is also fine (way that minimizes variance).
I think 56s under the gun is a bit loose, but not wrong. I don't like calling the 3-bet with it though, but at least you had position on the 3-better. The reason is that it's hard to have much more than a draw, after the flop, and you'll almost certainly will be facing a continuation bet. Maybe you can't make your hand often enough to be profitable.
The other thing is bet sizing. On the turn you bet $1 into a $1.35 pot, which in itself is fine, but it leaves an effective stack of just $0.43 for the river. If he makes his draw, this money is going in anyway, so you might as well go all in on the turn, at least then this $0.43 adds to your fold equity, instead of making the villains draw cheaper...
Edit: I see BeMy beat me to it...
2nd hand: Pre flop: okay, but Q9s takes a bit more skill post flop, than a premium hand. Flop: Fine, you are priced in to call. Turn: You do not have proper odds to call this $0.14 bet for a $0.59 pot, with only 6 outs, your implied odds might make up for some of that, but how often would they really call a sizable bet on the river, when you make your draw? River: I'd fold there too, regretting not folding the turn... Unless the villain is one of those players that thinks he can buy every pot on the river, if he bets enough (so many players do this).
Joined: May '12
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56s UTG is loose... but is the right play. It took me a while to believe raising with these kind of cards from UTG can be profitable, but believe me - it is.
Just as an edit on my earlier comments - I said "Anything you raise with, call a 3-bet" - just like to clarify that is dependant on being in position on the 3-better. Hands such as KQ, KJ which are definite raising hands on a 6-max table from any position... are CLEAR folds to 3-bets from someone who has position on you, but should be called if you have position.
If you're out of position and get 3-bet... you don't want to be flat calling. If the cards are good enough to 4-bet (ie AA, KK, QQ maybe AKs(dependant on table dynamics) )then 4-bet... if not, then fold. Don't look to catch a Jack with JJ for example. It's not profitable.
------------ ...And also the fact that 2 flush draws are out after the turn, and the straight draw isn't a nut straight draw SEVERELY decreases the "possible" outs...
Only 8h or 8s gives you the nuts... Kh or Ks would likely give you the win, but can't be sure you're not against an AQd, or AQc...
Remember the story about the the guy who lost two of his three farms calling on a non-nut straight draw... and lost the third and final one when he hit.
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Never called preflop raise unless you have a specific calling range or flatting range pre flop and you sticking to it and you already done research on which hand to flat against which players and so on, but you can flat from time to time just to balance your range if you a tight player, anyway good luck at the tables and keep posting these types of hands for evaluations as it can help you eliminate risk or diminish them so you can not lose money!
Joined: Jul '14
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I hardly limp, ever, and the 56s was a real toss up. I think that the UTG open defines my overall playstyle, loose aggressive. Aggressive poker is winning poker, understanding that it needs to be SELECTIVE aggression. Calling a 3-bet with the 56s from position in that spot is going to be more profitable than with KQ, KJ, even QJ, and HU against AKs from position I'm only a 3-2 underdog.
56s is definately in my opening range from late position, but not from UTG, except this case, where I wanted to open for less than my limping range from UTG (I believe this is called polarizing my range?). I think sticking to too thin of a preflop range can make you predictable (only TT+, AJs+, AQ+ etc.), but who the hell will pay attention to it in .01/.02 zoom anyway.
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Posted by tonespoker:
56s is definately in my opening range from late position, but not from UTG, except this case, where I wanted to open for less than my limping range from UTG (I believe this is called polarizing my range?). I think sticking to too thin of a preflop range can make you predictable (only TT+, AJs+, AQ+ etc.), but who the hell will pay attention to it in .01/.02 zoom anyway.
Yeah that's basicly all true, but isn't important at NL2. Especially NL2 (because the reg/fish ratio is so great in favour for fishes) you don't have to look at stuff like this, if you do anything advanced they won't notice anyways. I'd def. recommend marking all regs (people you play often/see play often and play more than 1 table), usually they have at least some kind of clue, against them you can use concepts like balancing range etc., but vs. fishes it will cause more trouble than that it gives any use. The reason why you need more and more advanced concepts once you climb up in stakes isn't the stake itself, it's because more and more good players you'll be up against. ut overall it can be said the weaker the field/pool/table, the better purely standard poker works, and that would be the general approach I'd go with at NL2.
I didn't know this is zoom. Since it's zoom, I like the 56s raise UTG because overall the tables are tighter. Flatting pre us totally fine as long as you stay cautious (don't overplay a 2/4/5 flop etc.)
