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  26-Oct-14, 09:13   #1
Interesting hand 0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/11435189_...

Wonder how often I am good here...

Seen him completely overshove with a lot less than a full house in that spot. What would you do?

     
  26-Oct-14, 09:21   #2
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6235
The good ol' poker-blues: "I called when the calling station shoved".

You have played against him, and may have a different view. But in that hand the guy was so passive, that i would expect at least a straight.

     
  26-Oct-14, 09:32   #3
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
That's exactly what I was thinking, a straight. Most 6's don't make sense, as I had seen him overshove strong and weak before in multiway pots, so I was wondering why he hadn't shoved at least the turn. I think best case scenario he was shoving worse 6's that didn't hit a full house, or possibly even a J. He hadn't been a calling station, just slow playing that particular hand. Was a tough spot but I don't think I could fold against him. But I'll be careful when he ships next time, seems pretty shove happy.

Not bemoaning my bad luck, just curious as to what the forum thinks. Still in the tourney with 2.5k and 3 KOs, 33 left, just back to the grind Evil

     
  26-Oct-14, 10:10   #4
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3125
when board is paired and there could be straight, and player goes all in, and you have simular amount of chips, I suggest fold, but I wouldnt fold all the time, you must see how that player was playing, did he goes a lot of all in or not, because normal player wouldnt go all in on paired bord if he got 2 pairs including pair on board, but there is always a chance that he got 6 with a low kicker, expecialy when he is on big blind... But in general if he isnt agresive player I would fold

     
  26-Oct-14, 13:50   #5
  0 
klash23 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 2243
If I had previously seen him shove with a lot less before then I am certain I would have called as well.Like other people here I was expecting to see a straight as well but with there being no raise pre-flop then he could have had anything and would be interesting to see if and why any one else would have folded. Smile

     
  26-Oct-14, 14:26   #6
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Naaaa... can't possibly fold there.

Just one of those hands that you can't get away from. Just don't think about hands like these - they will happen, but you can't learn how to play them better. They play themselves.

     
  26-Oct-14, 15:02   #7
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3125
big mistake, maybe on some tournaments that isn't big deal, but in cash games or some important tournament you must take all cards in considiration, and how player was playing. I would call raise, but for all in I would think about calling that!

     
  26-Oct-14, 15:28   #8
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 518
I am with yout85..
I see so many combinations u beat so i wouldnt fold.
Like said its just cooler u cant get away imo.
And that is why limped pot are dangerous - opponents can have any two cards....


     
  27-Oct-14, 09:28   #9
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5552
I cant see how you can fold and you just got very unlucky. You played the hand perfectly well in my opinion and for him to fill up on the turn was just cruel. You will be in front most of the time in my opinion so you must make the call

     
  27-Oct-14, 16:35   #10
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Very unlucky. To me it looks like he's bluffing a straight but that's taking only the hand I've seen into consideration. The pot isn't so bad to steal but an all-in is clearly an over-bet and in reality if you had a straight you wouldn't be shoving the moment you hit it having been so passive before plus you would want the call and it's not as if the other players look like calling a shove. So I would have thought it must have looked like a bluff with a scary river card. Don't know if I'd have called without playing the hands before but it doesn't seem like you made a bad call.

     
  27-Oct-14, 16:47   #11
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
I don't like the check on the flop but that wouldn't have changed the result of the hand. In these situations though you can lose a lot of value by checking the flop if someone else has a 6 (or even a 9). Maybe going into check/call mode on the river would've saved your stack but it seems pretty tight and doesn't make sense considering you checked the flop to trap them. It's a limp pot so players can have anything. But it's hard to put them on pocket pairs there so that narrows the dangerous hands to this kind of ugly sneaky full houses or river straight.

     
  27-Oct-14, 22:14   #12
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
Flopped trips with TK in a 4 way pot and you're UTG. I don't like betting anywhere near as much as checking, leading out for even 1/3 of the pot kills so much value. How many hands am I getting called with? Small pocket pairs, weird suited connecting hands that contain a 6, 9 or are 78, but how many of them are getting limped by the UTG limper and UTG+1 limper? They're hardly ever going to have a 6 (even a 9), so I'm checking to induce someone in position with 2 big cards or a weak ace to take a stab on a couple of streets.

Leading the flop just looks so strong, and I'm getting folds to anything that doesn't hit. I don't think something like 55, or even 77 would give much value. Leading gives you no value against hands that hit in that spot IMO.

     
  27-Oct-14, 22:25   #13
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
Well, there's 3 players against you in the hand, that's 6 cards. Blink So it's not that rare for them to have a 6 or a 9 with a decent kicker... Hands like K9 Q9 J9 910 could give a lot more value or even a limped A9 if they dont believe you have a 6.

But that's just how I see it, like I said the result would've been the same since he would've called and hit his jack anyways. Also checking the flop gives them a free card which can be dangerous if someone has a gutshot.

Leading out is scary to good players on this type of board but they know its considered scary so they could see it as a bluff. And donks could try to make hero calls with 9s.

Edited by TheMachineQC (Monday, October 27, 2014 @ 22:35 GMT)


     
  27-Oct-14, 22:51   #14
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Posted by TheMachineQC:
like I said the result would've been the same since he would've called and hit his jack anyways. Also checking the flop gives them a free card which can be dangerous if someone has a gutshot.


This would be true in bricks and mortar poker, but not online.... The RNG doesn't work like that.

     
  28-Oct-14, 00:46   #15
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
Look at it without considering the result though, that's the point of this thread.

How often is leading UTG 4 handed on a paired ever a bluff? The only thing I would ever complete/lead is a ridiculous drawing hand (such as a straight flush draw), hoping to not get raised by the trips. The only hands I'm maximising value against are weaker trips, and when you flop trips it's rare that someone else has trips, so you can pretty safely rule a 6 out in most occaisions. UTG and UTG+1 are almost never holding a 6, so that leaves only the BB to worry about, which we have no information off. I'd rather check/call (raise if there's a caller). Not much point in check calling if UTG bets and UTG+1 flats, then I'd raise to isolate/berid of draws.

The J is almost never leaving me crushed, so that's when i lead attempting to pick up some information/get value from overcards holding a J, or even something weird like Q10, K10 etc, checking is definately bad on the turn.

I don't think a flop float by a UTG bet is something anyone in the hand is going to do, so why bet the flop?


     
  28-Oct-14, 16:35   #16
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
For me if I lead it means Im never laying down my hand or Im fishing for information with a 9 or small pocket pair. Almost every hand is polarized in NLHE, so why not put them on a decision right away? If you bet and someone has a 6 he could easily raise you. I don't think that 2 players flopping a set in a limp pot 4-way is unlikely enough to completly rule it out.

Im not saying you made a mistake in the hand, I'm just saying there's other possible lines depending on your style and image.

     
  28-Oct-14, 23:33   #17
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
I can understand the lead with the 9 or the pair (something I'd put some consideration to but most likely just check/call and face later difficult decisions), about 1/3 of the pot always folding to a raise? Any 9 you can continue with (even 77,88) should be good enough to raise and clear the limpers pre-flop, and if their range is polarised you may as well find out pre-flop with good 9's and pocket pairs from the SB (just be good enough post flop to take it down when you're in a 4 way pot, UTG and holding A9 offsuit lol). It's micro stakes, this isn't s**t we have to consider really.

I think a 6 would usually raise me, but it's too early in the hand to lead IMO. You're getting 3 folds rather than a float so much more than a genuine call/raise. We're only getting raised by 6x, 99 and OVP's (something that most likely would have gotten raised pre-flop), all of which are very unlikely. I'm normally reluctanct to give free cards but this is a better case than any, a clear check for me.


     
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