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Posted by arsenej1: Great posts guys. Too bad rigtards get tunnel vision and this will all be a blurr. For the rest of us definitely a good read.
Actually, it's a good thing
If everyone knew that it wasn't rigged, and that results were actually down to their own ability (or lack of) and willingness to learn and improve... It would be much harder to profit...
As it is, with half of losers blaming everyone but themselves for their inability to win - they will not try to improve.
Joined: Apr '09
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Posted by yout85: Pretty much spot on (as usual) Jess.... Other than one point I'd like to make....
Posted by jessthehuman: If you honestly believe you're a winning player (or more to the point, if you honestly ARE playing winning poker) - then you WILL win..
Not necessarily... By the laws of probability, you COULD play winning poker EVERY TIME you enter a tourney... NEVER getting your money in as an underdog and lose EVERY TIME (in the same way a coin flip COULD come out heads a billion times in a row). Even over a billion hands, this COULD happen - sure the odds would be monumental, but that only makes it statistically improbable - not statistically impossible.
But obviously, I get your point - play winning poker and you should win... play losing poker and you should lose (over a big enough sample).
That is very true and I nearly put that in as a little caveat, I should have really - for the sake of being honest. The reason I didn't say that, is I ate throwing that bone..
Like saying - you could be the best player there ever was, play 10 million hands (to get past the variance) and STILL end up being a loser, due to bad luck.. It's completely true (albeit incredibly unlikely). I just hate throwing a dog that bone, because it means someone can be completely shithouse, have 1 million hands to prove they're shithouse and STILL hold the belief that they're just unlucky.
Peoples understanding of maths is so poor, they don't quite grasp just how unlucky you would actually have to be, to play a huge amount of poker, with a winning style and not come out in front.. It's pretty much only hypothetically possible, practically speaking - if you're a winning player, if you put in enough volume, then you will win.. But as you say - theoretically - you *could* still lose, due to bad luck, but we're talking about astronomical odds, in fact - if the volume gets high enough, we're talking about a level of bad luck so incredible, that it's actually statistically unlikely (highly unlikely even) that there is even a single player, in the whole world, that unlucky.
So yes - it is true, not matter how good you are and how many hands you play, you could in theory still lose money, purely due to bad luck. But just because that is true, the fact is - if you've played a huge amount of poker (HUGE) and you're losing money overall, it's because you're not playing winning poker, not because of bad luck.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
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Question. Ive decided to start taking poker more seriously and try and stick to brm and not just gamble. Is it possible to reset poker stats so i can follow my progress or are they permanent online? Sites like offical poker ratings and sharkscope?
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 2064
I believe on Sharkscope you can reset your stats... not entirely sure though. Pretty sure you can't on OPR, but again, not entirely sure.
Short of creating a new account, there's not really much you can do (which is against the rules of every site I know of).
I would recommend getting Poker Tracker or a similar program - Not only will it help to improve your game by identifying leaks and the ability to look back through old hands... It will track your results starting from now... You'll also have the added benefit of their HUD.
If you're serious about improving, splash out on that first - it will be well worth it.
------------ Arsenej.... yes, you can reset Sharkscope to any date you like.
Can I ask a favour? ....If you are going to do it - check which achievements you have first, then see if they vanish when you reset...
I would quite like to start afresh on there too, but don't want to lose my achievements
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by yout85: As it is, with half of losers blaming everyone but themselves for their inability to win - they will not try to improve.
Quite true.. I still have a couple big issues with it though
A) This one is kind of personal and a bit to do with my ego; I find it a bit offensive.. I've never (the whole time playing poker) blamed the software, or anyone or anything else for my losses. I accept responsiblity for my actions, no matter how painful that can be. And knowing how hard it can be, to admit that to others and to myself, it really gets on my nerves when people cop-out.. When people can't just have some fucking balls and be a man (or a woman - I'm talking metaphors here, I don't mean to be sexist) and take some fucking responsibility for their own behaviour (and losses).
I also know how difficult it was to LOSE money playing poker for a good 12 months, then break even for another 12 months, before I got good enough to be a consistent, winning player. It took a lot of effort. I had to focus, study - I had to admit I wasn't as good as I though I was. I had to admit I wasn't as smart as I thought I was.. Being an intelligent person, when I first got onto poker, read about some players success stories - winning huge amounts of money and it looked so easy. And I thought to myself - I'm a very smart person, if other people are doing this - then I definitely can. I thought I'd be able to spend a month or so learning the game, then just fucking clean up.
Boy did I learn some hard lessons - oh yeah, there IS money to be made playing online poker, but it ain't easy money.. Maybe it once was, during the so-called 'boom' - but that was a damn long time ago. Truth is now - there's a LOT of smart people playing online poker - a lot of people putting a lot of time in, a lot of smart people.. just as smart as me. Just as smart as you. And the fact is, rake is hard to beat, to win - you don't just have to be better than most, you don't just have to be in the top 20% or so, to win (decent money) playing online poker, you have to be the best of the fucking best - otherwise you just ain't gonna get past the rake, that is the sad truth.
There's no easy money in online poker, you gotta put in a lot of time, you got to be very smart and you have to have nerves of fucking steal. It's not an easy game and boy, most people are gonna lose.. In fact, they have to lose, otherwise no one could fucking win..
So - my ego took a fucking battering playing this game, I had to face some hard fucking truths about what I thought about myself and my intelligence and face up to the fact there's a lot of smart people out there.. Lot of really smart people and they're dedicating a LOT of time to learning this game, mastering this game - OWNING this fucking game. And they have the dicsipline to use good bankroll management, to not play drunk, to not go on tilt and play above their limit.. So many factors..
You want to make money playing online poker? You got to be one of the fucking elite few, that is the cold, hard fact of the game.
So when I see people copping out instead of acknowleding all of this ^^. Well, it really upsets me - because I went through it - I didn't blame anyone else, I admitted to myself and to others that I wasn't "all that" - I wasn't half as good as I thought I was.. I realised I DIDN'T have what it takes to become a millionaire from poker.. Eventually - after much money lost, much bruised ego and much pain-staking, grinding focus on the game, eventually I carved out a little space (small-medium stakes MTT on a small-medium site; PKR) - I carved a little niche that I could make a *tiny* bit of extra income.. I was never gonna get rich off it, but eventually I faced enough truths and put in enough time, that my sharkscope turned around, started pointing upwards and I eventually went on a journey that saw me take over $10K in MTT earnings from PKR.
So yeah, it fucking upsets me, one some dips**t retard thinks they're fucking hot s**t and the only reason they aint a millionaire is because the site is fixed against them.
Well.. sorry, but NO dips**t, the reason you ain't made money off online poker is because you're a FUCKING DIPSHIT.
B) Now, the other reason, far less personal, is because I want to see online poker properly legalised and regulated - preferably on a global scale.. so we can all enjoy global markets again (yay - bring the USA fish back.. plu-ease!) - And the more people spread s**t about sites being rigged, etc - the less likely it is that we'll EVER see a good, clean regulated global online poker market.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
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My only issue with getting a tracker is i mainly play on my tablet. It only allows 4 games at once anddont think i can get a app for the trackers on it. Opr seems a little usless to me as i play alot of stt and theu only show tables with 36+ players i believe. Ill try sharkscope for now until i get another laptop. Thanks.
------------ Yup will do i just transferd funds to sharkscope and opr to unlock my stats.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by yout85: I believe on Sharkscope you can reset your stats... not entirely sure though. Pretty sure you can't on OPR, but again, not entirely sure.
You can.. I nearly did once.. so glad I didn't.
What happened with me.. is, I finally started to get better, become a winning player, yet sharkscope still told the story of my losses (was down quite a bit, 4 figures). And it really pissed me off, sitting at the tables, having some a*****e tell me about my losses, despite the fact I'd been winning for the last 2 months, 3 months, 6 months.. Until eventually.. it told a different story..
I was so glad I never reset my stats.. because it was such a fucking fantastic moment when I finally turned that s**t around.
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
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Think that's a very good point Jess... and has convinced me not to reset my stats.
My graph has never been in the negatives (on any site I play on), but I hate that it shows my indiscipline... playing $100 HUs, The massive downswings that come about purely by playing outside of my comfort zone... But now thinking this could serve as good motivation to not make the same mistakes again...
I'm determined that my graph will take a steady upwards climb from now on... then at least I can look back at my swingy past, and be grateful I have learned my lessons.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posts: 6483
Added mine too (SS achievements) first I've heard of them.. then, I rarely play these days.
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Posted by yout85: Think that's a very good point Jess... and has convinced me not to reset my stats.
My graph has never been in the negatives (on any site I play on), but I hate that it shows my indiscipline... playing $100 HUs, The massive downswings that come about purely by playing outside of my comfort zone... But now thinking this could serve as good motivation to not make the same mistakes again...
I'm determined that my graph will take a steady upwards climb from now on... then at least I can look back at my swingy past, and be grateful I have learned my lessons.
Glad to hear.. if you've never had a negative, then I wouldn't worry..
My SNG results on PKR are STILL negative, thanks to lack of discipline (the vast majority of my SNG losses are incurred playing drunken HU games.
Interestingly, I'm over $2K in the hole for SNG, HOWEVER - the interesting bit is, I'm actually UP over $1,000 for SNG - EXCLUDING rake.. pretty fascinating huh, serves to show just how hard it is to beat rake.. Rake is the difference between me being over $2k in the, vs about $1.4K in the black! So even though I'm a winning player, in the sense I *AM* beating the competition, sadly I'm not beating the site..
Luckily I have around $13K in MTT winnings, which mean I'm still up over $10K overall..
but yes, you wouldn't believe the amount of times I've been tempted to set those SNGs back to zero..
But they serve as a reminder of my lack of discipline and I still look forward to a day, when it is in the black..
If you view my MTT graph and zoom in near the start, it shows steady period of losses (leaning) then a long break-even period - playing like a p***y - this is where I valued min-cashes too much, used to always make the money and essentially blind-out and I could never understand why I couldn't last the distant.. I thought I was good, but kept getting stuck mid-late game.. Then I learn't how to play fearless poker and to go for the win and to forget about the min-cashes and I learn't to go big or go home.. Basically, my my graph starts shooting up, around then is when I started playing with such a style that generally I ever have a huge stack, or I'm bust.. I don't play mediocre MTT any more.
Edited by jessthehuman (03 November 2014 @ 14:32 GMT)
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 3207
Mines completely red lol gots alot of work to do to change it but ill start will playing within my bamkroll and sticking to brm. Think my issue is i play random thimgs somedays its 50/50 some days mtt and last night i found myself playing 25-30 headsup games which ive never done before.
I gotta apologize for any spelling errors in any of my posts im on my cell whenever im on here so easy to f up.
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
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@Jess
Yeah you still are. Haha. Tbh I only said the rigged blah blah things when I was angry and on tilt. You were always right though as it was usually just me playing bad or taking the wrong decisions.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by yout85: Can you tell me what King of Clubs and 3 of Hearts are please Jess?
BTW... We're tied on 31 atm
Umm.. I don't have the K
3 is Stairway to Heaven: Won a tiered tournament. K (if that is what you meant) is Streaker: Won 10 consecutive games
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Posted by Phisix: @Jess
Yeah you still are. Haha. Tbh I only said the rigged blah blah things when I was angry and on tilt. You were always right though as it was usually just me playing bad or taking the wrong decisions.
Well, I hope no hard feelings, cause I have respect for anyone who can admit this stuff. I just lose my s**t when people don't take responsibility, because we're all (hopefully!) adults here and we'll never learn/improve if we cast blame somewhere else.
But if you were just angry and blowing off steam, like I said above - I don't think calling the sites rigged is great for the public image of online poker, but otherwise - I'm ok with it, so long as you do the right thing in the end.
I know I can be a cunt online, I'm really not in real life, but online I tend to step over the line a bit.
So, sorry if I caused offence to you, because honestly - I know what it takes to admit that the losses are due to your own actions, believe me - I've got plenty of my own to own up to!
Edited by jessthehuman (03 November 2014 @ 15:42 GMT)
Joined: May '12
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Oops, yeah - I did mean King of Spades...
I don't think it's a bad thing to be an online cunt... when it comes to poker anyway. The very nature of the game means you have to be ruthless - Your gain can only come at someone else's loss, so it helps to not give a toss
And then on forums like this, some people do need telling they're fucking morons sometimes, and we need people like you around to do so
Joined: Apr '09
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Posted by yout85: Oops, yeah - I did mean King of Spades...
I don't think it's a bad thing to be an online cunt... when it comes to poker anyway. The very nature of the game means you have to be ruthless - Your gain can only come at someone else's loss, so it helps to not give a toss
And then on forums like this, some people do need telling they're fucking morons sometimes, and we need people like you around to do so
I'm a bit of a facebook cunt too.. I have a few friends (in real life) who ask me why I'm such a cunt on FB...
I think I just don't treat people as real human beings online, I just think of them as "The Internet" lol
Joined: May '13
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You never really caused offense I just get defensive when people get funny with me but you did it for the right reasons which I appreciate. Your a winning player who knows things so you were in the right and was only trying to help. It's people like you who actually help people improve or think about improving more after getting ridiculed or shown up.
Funnily enough since the last time you gave me a word n things I have no got angry or kicked off, even when I went on a downswing from £21 to £2.80. Maybe I am finally learning. I can still get angry though but not to enough to cry on a forum....for now.
One thing the rigtards are right about is bad luck often comes at the worst possible moments. So they see it as rigged because the timing for that cooler is so brutal. But really the old saying "That's poker" says it all. If luck wasn't involved the game would be predictable and boring. Human nature is curious and to me gambling is a form of curiosity... We just want to see if we're gonna hit our open handed... or our flush... That's why fishes call pot-size bets on the turn with 5 high flush draws.
gots alot of work to do to change it but ill start will playing within my bamkroll and sticking to brm. Think my issue is i play random thimgs somedays its 50/50 some days mtt and last night i found myself playing 25-30 headsup games which ive never done before.
Haha. Tbh I only said the rigged blah blah things when I was angry and on tilt. You were always right though as it was usually just me playing bad or taking the wrong decisions.
is Stairway to Heaven: Won a tiered tournament.
(if that is what you meant) is Streaker: Won 10 consecutive games
