Joined: Mar '11
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So I'm playing a €2 buy in €200 Guaranteed over on ipoker. It's late on in the tourney, blinds are 250/500/50. I'm sat with 16,600 in chips in the cutoff with AQ of diamonds. Villain is UTG with 20,350 and min raises to 1000. I've noticed that this guy steal shoves all in on the button and SB pretty often and I've seen him raise 2.5bb's and cbet on three occasions with no showdown. That's all the info I have.
So I'm just wondering what you guys would do in this situation?
I will get some answers and then share what I did (which I definitely think was very wrong lol)
Joined: Feb '10
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is not the moment to ruin your stack = 32 bb , so you 3 bet him to 2.5k-3k and fold if he push , you have posiont on him so regarding the flop you take the decision .
Joined: Jul '14
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You don't really have to take into account his later pos preflop play when he min raises UTG. If he's open steal shoving 20BB+ on the button you can almost guarantee he isn't doing it super strong (but with a €2 buy in who the hell knows).
It helps to develop a plan before you do anything.
Let's look at flat calling. Flatting here will leave the pot with 3,150 (assuming at least 8 player table), giving everyone to act behind you exceptional odds to call preflop (better than 3-1). With your flat call, the chance anyone behind you will raise gets smaller, as a tighter range would be required to 3 bet (take out the assumption that players left to act are squeezing even a tiny amount of the time, don't need to account for this at this stake usually) from these players, and this will hardly ever happen. More often you will take the flop in a 4 way pot and have to fold if you miss. You minimise risk, which can be a plus for flat calling, but you open yourself up to so much vulnerability. You basically have to fold if you miss and someone bets, so you're reliant on flopping draws/paired hands, something that will only happen 40% of the time (accounting for draw potential). That seems ok, but not optimal.
Let's look at 3 betting. You have a really good preflop hand, a big suited ace. Re-raising here will almost always force everyone behind you to fold (unless they have a tier 1 hand, in which case you will almost always be getting raised). Any semi strong preflop hand they had goes into the muck. That's a big bonus for us, as we want to isolate the UTG raiser, and get rid of any marginal hands that could hit the flop (from an EV perspective you want to keep these hands in, but for a play by play situation it's DEFINATELY not optimal. You really want to be playing this HU, from position). If we get re-raised, it's a relatively tough spot, but I would fold. More often than not this raise will take the pot right there. If you get called by UTG, you have a great preflop hand and are HU (almost all of the time). UTG needs a MONSTER to re-raise, and like before, it's a relatively tough spot but still a fold. You obviously need to raise enough to get everyone behind out (I.e. Do not min raise). I like to at least 3.5k +, giving anyone behind you bad odds to continue anything that isn't really strong? UTG has some tough decisions, but you will now have a lot of extra information, regardless of what he does. His flat almost always means a hand equal %age wise, or in much worse shape than yours (88+, AT-AJs, maybe even KQ if he is fishy). A great result for you. On the flop, always c betting, which usually takes it there.
I'd raise to at least 3.5k, and see what happens. Fold to villains shove, but still be HU if he flats. Or he could fold. Flatting opens yourself up to a lot of unnecessary scenarios that are bad for you. A great spot to be aggressive.
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Posted by host85: is not the moment to ruin your stack = 32 bb , so you 3 bet him to 2.5k-3k and fold if he push , you have posiont on him so regarding the flop you take the decision .
Yeah either this, or if you think he's capable of 4betting with worse flat call (if you plan on folding to a 4bet that is). I think I prefer flatting anyway
Joined: Mar '11
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couple of great replies so far. Thanks a lot
------------ It's looking like I didn't play it so bad, just a little bit bad. I will post what I did if I get 8 replies total or later tonight. depends which comes first
Joined: May '08
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well i would flat call too, not too bad holdings and if you connect to the flop you can take a nice scalp, if you are drawing to something- position might help to this more cheaply... no need to risk big in late stages with a decent stack imho.
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Posted by pochui: well i would flat call too, not too bad holdings and if you connect to the flop you can take a nice scalp, if you are drawing to something- position might help to this more cheaply... no need to risk big in late stages with a decent stack imho.
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by host85: is not the moment to ruin your stack = 32 bb , so you 3 bet him to 2.5k-3k and fold if he push , you have posiont on him so regarding the flop you take the decision .
Yeah either this, or if you think he's capable of 4betting with worse flat call (if you plan on folding to a 4bet that is). I think I prefer flatting anyway
Even if you're opening yourself up to a 5 way pot? Understandedly we have an awkward sized stack, but flat calling leaves you playing hit or miss post flop. We're just potentially commiting dead money to a lot of flops if the B, SB and/or BB aren't we, even if we aren't prepared to stack off preflop?
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Posted by pochui: well i would flat call too, not too bad holdings and if you connect to the flop you can take a nice scalp, if you are drawing to something- position might help to this more cheaply... no need to risk big in late stages with a decent stack imho.
the wrong decision ever is just flat AQ diamonds in position against a probably LAG. 3-bet is a must in that situation but i think also the OP pushed preflop as he was saying that he played there bad. If the op did had aces probably in this situation could be a solution flating , put the villain in a trap , but never AQ s.
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A number of options really, with varying risk. Flat call and run the risk of not hitting the flop, but at minimum expense. Three bet him and see what he does and if he re raises, he will prob shove and then probably fold your hand. If he calls, then you are back to flat call. Alternatively you could call his bluff and shove, but you have perhaps too many BBs for this, but as its $2, who knows!
Joined: Mar '11
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Thanks all. Really appreciate your replies.
So, I didnt flat call as I always like to raise when I think I have the best hand plus i hate when too many people are in the pot. I definitely didnt shove as my stack is way too big for that. What I did is i raised to 2.5k (probably should have been 3k but I think 2.5 is fine) I had the plan of folding to a 4bet shove but he 4bet to 6k I know I should of folded there because I think he is showing strength by trying to get more money in but also keeping me interested which I was so I made the call. I missed the flop, he continued and I folded. I know my mistake was calling the 4bet but I just couldn't fold it. Would anyone do any different if so why? Thanks a lot guys take care
Joined: Aug '10
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Based on the previous hands he played agressively, id raise it to 4 or 5k. Then, if he re-raised, i would fold, but most probably he would call or fold. Going all in before even seeing the flop is not an option, he might have played shitty hand before, but it takes a weak pair to beat your AQ if common cards don´t help-
Joined: Feb '10
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never flat : in that situation even with AQ s is fold or push , but never call the 4 bet .if i would know him to be LAG , i would make there 5bet shove .
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Well I think your analysis is absolutely right. In my point of view the raise is the right thing to do, if you think it is a loose player. But if he reraises I would probably fold the hand. But calling and folding the flop is also OK.
Joined: Mar '11
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I finished about 27th I think for double my buy in. Not great but not bad i guess. If I'd of 5bet shoved I could of done better or I could of lost and got nothing.
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This last point is where I believe the good players are distinguished from the great players! One should not hold back on the basis that by not playing may win you 'some' money at the risk of losing! The approach should be to play the hand with the aim of coming first in the tourney or going out there and then!
