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  16-Apr-15, 21:57   #1
what would you do 0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
I want to hear your opinion on this situation... I am in mid position, with strong stack, above average. Short stack on UTG shove preflop, I got him covered 4x and I got AQ in mid position, there is same stack like mine behind me, and he got me almoust covered (by quater of blind). Now do you reshove there or you just flat call, or fold, but I doubt you do that...

     
  16-Apr-15, 22:04   #2
  0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 72 (M)
Posts: 3450
Maybe i will surprise you but in mid position with A Q if you flat call and another player goes all in what do you do you call or you let a good amount of chips on the table. Probably may peoples would go but i would just fold. Smile Smile

     
  16-Apr-15, 22:38   #3
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
fold short stack shove, when you have AQ? what if I told you he had Q4? O.o but real question is do you shove or call? you must isolate all in player in this case because someone else wouldnt call you with small or mid pair...Which I did, I reshoved, but is it mistake or not?

     
  16-Apr-15, 22:57   #4
  0 
CanadianAces 
Joined: Jan '15
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 38
if its a sitngo i just call and see a flop. your main goal is to make the money. in my opinion the chips you have are worth alot more than the ones you can potentially win. if u lose an all in here by the big stack waking up wiyh a hand and calling u go bust. if u call and its just u and the small stack after the flop your in. much better shape and can make a much more profitable decision.

     
  16-Apr-15, 23:13   #5
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
it was 180 man sit and go, left about 60, 27 get paid.... So here is what happend, as I said I reshoved and player with same stack than mine call with AK. totaly missed flop for all players with 2 dimonds, 4d get out on turn geting one pair for small stack and river was dimond, giving me flush with queen, but player with AK got K in dimond, so he kicked me out. And I think I didnt do anything wrong here, because he is only player that got same amount of chips than I, all others have less, so reshove is to isolate him from others, but I went in very low chance that player with same amount of chips got stronger hand than me... I think that will happend in very small amount of time, and in my opinion I didn't do anything wrong...

     
  17-Apr-15, 04:50   #6
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6210
Shove yourself, unless the table is extremely passiv, then a call would be enough. The other big stack will only get involved, if he has a really strong hand, cause you can take him out. If he has one, next tourney.

     
  17-Apr-15, 05:34   #7
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 1884
How many BBs did you have and what % of your stack did his shove represent? If guy has under 15BB then you have to call or shove cause AQ should be ahead of most of his range. If he has 20-25BB then I would most likely fold because UTG shove looks pretty strong. I'm not sure what you call a "small stack"... and were there antes at this point? Was it a full table? Cause that can affect your decision too. Anyways, AQ is strong enough to take this kind of risk, but there's always these 4 hands that dominate you... ^^

     
  17-Apr-15, 09:26   #8
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 507
next time post boom hand cause u gave almost no info on hand...
but with like less then 20bb u reshove this anytime.

     
  17-Apr-15, 11:10   #9
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
Posted by TheMachineQC:
How many BBs did you have and what % of your stack did his shove represent? If guy has under 15BB then you have to call or shove cause AQ should be ahead of most of his range. If he has 20-25BB then I would most likely fold because UTG shove looks pretty strong. I'm not sure what you call a "small stack"... and were there antes at this point? Was it a full table? Cause that can affect your decision too. Anyways, AQ is strong enough to take this kind of risk, but there's always these 4 hands that dominate you... ^^

I already told he was short stack, he had like 10BB maybe little less, and I said I got him coverd 4x maybe little more

     
  17-Apr-15, 11:34   #10
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8400
if as you say main question is to call or shove, then probably calling would be wiser since that dude with a decent stack behind you may just be holding AA's and waiting for your shove. so if he shoves, then probably you should ponder folding... depending on the stage of the tournament of course

source of amazing knowledge: lots of hands lost and lots of cash donated to players around the world.

     
  17-Apr-15, 11:50   #11
  +1 
CanadianAces 
Joined: Jan '15
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 38
not once did i hear you consider your fold equity here. like i said. the chips you have are actually worth more to you than chips in play. each chip u have has a cash value in relation to the payout structure. without actually chip counts of everyone at the table i cant calculate to find out but my guess is you should have folded this handed as the risk to reward ratio wasnt in your favour and u had a similar stack left to act after u made your move.

look up the article on fold equity and icm and you will understand where im leading you with this. sitngoplanet is a good place to start

     
  17-Apr-15, 11:53   #12
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
yup, but in what amount of time in this case that pricese player would have aces or kings or AK? Very small, and I didnt want someone else in pot, thats why I shoved. If I called, there is chance someone else would call also and hit flop/turn/river... Thats why I had to shove there and hope that player with simular stack to mine doesnt have something like I said...

     
  17-Apr-15, 12:08   #13
  0 
CanadianAces 
Joined: Jan '15
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 38
22-AA Ak plus a few other hands have the potential to beat u hear. but regardless...how many people are left in the tournament at this time? what is your place?
why invest all your chips and end up with 0 chance at winning when before the hand u were sitting comfortably with a shot at the money. in this spot i focus more on what i have to lose than what i have to gain because your chips before u play the hand had a monetary value that even if u won here would have increased very little in relation to the prize pòol.
sitngos are not just about playing your good hands when u get them. Aq is actually a very foldable hand in most cases here. i believe u need AA or Kk in this spot to push. otherwise its call with intention to fold if u dont hit the flop hard.

     
  17-Apr-15, 12:20   #14
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3031
Posted by CanadianAces:
22-AA Ak plus a few other hands have the potential to beat u hear. but regardless...how many people are left in the tournament at this time? what is your place?
why invest all your chips and end up with 0 chance at winning when before the hand u were sitting comfortably with a shot at the money. in this spot i focus more on what i have to lose than what i have to gain because your chips before u play the hand had a monetary value that even if u won here would have increased very little in relation to the prize p�ol.
sitngos are not just about playing your good hands when u get them. Aq is actually a very foldable hand in most cases here. i believe u need AA or Kk in this spot to push. otherwise its call with intention to fold if u dont hit the flop hard.

I said above there were 60 players left and I was around 20th maybe 18 or so... And if you fold AQ to short stack shove, thats a bad play Ill have to say... because he is shoving preaty lightly with around 10BB as I said he got Q4... and as I say million times only question was does player that have same stack has a monster hand or not... and as I said in rare cases he will, just like in this case...

     
  17-Apr-15, 12:23   #15
  0 
CanadianAces 
Joined: Jan '15
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 38
if u check my stats on sharkscope u can see i played alot of sitngos on pokerstars. so trust me when i say u need to really focus on learning icm when it comes to sitngos. im not a pro and my results may not show my progress as a player but im much more aware of what it takes to beat these games.

------------
for the amount of games ive played... u have jj..they have qq or better. Aq runs into ak jj qq kk aa ALOT! or u get outrun by a way lesser hand.
in my opinion aq is the worst hand i can play and i got into the habit of folding it more just to survive these tournaments. u need to play 1000s of games before u see what i mean. i dont know about all sites but i know pokerstars. lol

Cool

Edited by CanadianAces (Friday, April 17, 2015 @ 12:28 GMT)


     
  17-Apr-15, 12:51   #16
  0 
bowie1984 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 4445
Posted by StheP:
I want to hear your opinion on this situation... I am in mid position, with strong stack, above average. Short stack on UTG shove preflop, I got him covered 4x and I got AQ in mid position, there is same stack like mine behind me, and he got me almoust covered (by quater of blind). Now do you reshove there or you just flat call, or fold, but I doubt you do that...

No, I'd just quit poker.
Why do you need to ask questions when you already know the answers?

     
  17-Apr-15, 13:14   #17
  -1 
CanadianAces 
Joined: Jan '15
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 38
Posted by bowie1984:
Posted by StheP:
I want to hear your opinion on this situation... I am in mid position, with strong stack, above average. Short stack on UTG shove preflop, I got him covered 4x and I got AQ in mid position, there is same stack like mine behind me, and he got me almoust covered (by quater of blind). Now do you reshove there or you just flat call, or fold, but I doubt you do that...

No, I'd just quit poker.
Why do you need to ask questions when you already know the answers?

why bother even answering his post if u feel that way? for a 31 yr old u lack maturity in a big way with a response like that.
just sayin Smile

     
  17-Apr-15, 13:52   #18
  0 
westside1950 
Joined: Dec '13
Location: Croatia
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 716
Posted by StheP:
yup, but in what amount of time in this case that pricese player would have aces or kings or AK? Very small, and I didnt want someone else in pot, thats why I shoved. If I called, there is chance someone else would call also and hit flop/turn/river... Thats why I had to shove there and hope that player with simular stack to mine doesnt have something like I said...


Exactly this - you don't want him to get the chance to just call and get in the pot cheaply.
Reshove is definitly frist option here - especially if he is the only guy with the stack as big as yours...

     
  17-Apr-15, 14:05   #19
  +1 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 507
but reshove with 40bbs with aq is way way too lose.

     
  17-Apr-15, 14:10   #20
  0 
westside1950 
Joined: Dec '13
Location: Croatia
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 716
yea - but only one guy is covering him.
If he just calls he is pot commited and cannot fold to any other shove (except maybe from the big guys but that is also questionable b'cause we don't know his range and playing style)
Reshove looks super strong - and only hands calling him from the big stack ost of the time are qq+ and ak (he even might fold ak) and with aq we also block a number of that combinations.

     
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