I'm going to bitch and moan slightly here..Recently on almost every online poker site I keep losing with monster hands. I get AA or KK and raise it at least 5-6bbz from early position and at least 3-4bbz in later positions.
It's the same old crap I raise and get called by some damn speculative hand today it was 810 off suit! Idiot who even calls a big raise with that garbage?!
Anyway I raised and got about 4 callers (this pissed me off as it is) Flop is dry but knew I had to bet.
I bet 438 which was 3/4 of the pot of course 810 calls and surprise surprise next card completes a straight. He immediately bets big I shove out of anger of this frequently happening and yup he has 810 off 7-j straight! What in the hell am I doing wrong(apart from shoving that was just pure tilt and can you blame me)?
I bet and bet they chase and chase do I need to go fricken all in on the flop to get rid of these morons?! Really fed up of it my chair just took a beating he's lucky I'm not in the room with him!!
Thinking about just shoving AA and KK preflop now all the time because I'm really fed up with this it's wrecking all my tournaments and my progress. I've proven when I can keep cool that I am a decent all round player. I'm my own worst enemy but with these idiots getting lucky day in day out no wonder I lose the rag!
Some advice about how to approach these situations would be great. I mean would you fold AA when the flop is 9J3 all different suits? And of course I want to extract value or remove them this bet was to remove them actually.
When they don't hit maybe yes, But they always hit when I play them whether it be a 4 outer or a 1 outer they always "get there" Was my bet sizing off at all? Nothing I can do apart from fold on the turn in this situation. The really annoying part is I knew he had 810 and still shoved just complete tilt because he pissed me off. Calmed down now though.
Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 30 (M)
Posted by Imanovice: When they don't hit maybe yes, But they always hit when I play them whether it be a 4 outer or a 1 outer they always "get there" Was my bet sizing off at all? Nothing I can do apart from fold on the turn in this situation. The really annoying part is I knew he had 810 and still shoved just complete tilt because he pissed me off. Calmed down now though.
no, on a little more serious note now... you absolutely WANT them to hit their outs from time to time because if they never do, they will stop giving you money. And when you say "they always hit" i know its just an exaggeration because ive done it myself too countless times
long story short: in the long run chasers = money. yeah i know they have a nasty habbit of hitting their 3 outers and stuff like that, but hey thats whats poker about though, making money in the long run.
Not to mention if we really thought how TCW (The chasers way? ) is the way to go, we'd all be doing it
In cash games I agree you want them to get lucky once or twice but this was in a MTT with a decent prizepool so chips are valuable. Would you fold AA on a dry flop like that? no flush no flopped straight possible. What else could I really do?
Never bet more then 3 times big blind, that is something you can do sometimes in tournies (when the antes are higher)!
Poker is winning on the long run if you play with good hands, if you don't tilt you will win more then you would lose. So keep playing with good hands and bet wisely, learn how to bet and when.
So most of the times you will win with your aces or any other good hand. But you can lose sometimes. Just try not to fish and don't play to the river all the time.
GL and don't tilt too much!
It was just to thin the field but why even bother if 4 people are going to call anyway! It's just kind of soul destroying when I can't go deep in any because of fish or worse than fish players who don't even care whatsoever. Beginning to really hate premium hands now. I'll take the advice on board. Not tilting is easier said than done but I'll try!
The main reason I like to bet big is to build a big pot to win and to show opponents I'm not scared to risk my chips or money. It works often for me but maybe I'll just min raise the AA or KK next time and if I get 3 of those bullets from the flop my opponents will be none the wiser when I milk them dry...
Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 37 (M)
So from what ive read, u play the AA soft, that's why a lot of people call, like u said u always get 2 or 3 callers and if they have called 3BBs just to see the flop of course they have some what of a hand, nice way to smug in small pairs, suited connectors, any AT, AJ,KJ,KT,KQ so u let a lot in, and a lot can happen when u do, i used to slow play AA a lot and lost a lot, so from that point on i decided no more slow play with ace`s, heads up they are 82% of the time the best hand, so why waste that %, i say all in, try to isolate some1, or, early in the tournament shoving AA people will think u r a donk and there will be a hero to try and take your chips, but a hero not HERO`s calling with AK KK or mb even QQ, once u double up on them, soon the whole table knows u no donk Ill open KK QQ JJ with a 3/5 bbs bet, flat call if i have a small raise, if i face all in call ill just might call with the KK against 1 player, ill call a loose player even with the QQ, but if i had AA i will be the one shoving so what im saying don't be afraid to play strong with AA, 82% they will hold, unless u r playing them against russians coz they r like cryptonite for ace`s, or on jokerstars, which in both case`s urr facked
I don't play them soft I raise big that's what I said in original post. and then always cbet the flop at least 3/4 of the pot if its a flush draw flop or wet in anyway I'll usually give up though no point putting money into a black hole. If it's dry or something like Q22 I'll bet too because the odds of them having a 2 in their hand is pretty slim. So do you just shove AA preflop always then? I had KK just there and made a killing I raised them 8bbz got value preflop and then checkraised when I made a set.
Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 37 (M)
Thats my point, u raise 3/5BBs and expect 3bet so u can 4bet trying to induce a 5bet or simply 4bet shove, and that's all good and well deep in the tournament when only good players are left, coz they understand the concept of 3bet 4bet, but early and mid in the tournament a lot of people don't coz most of them are donks, they only know "wow, mom mom A2off, ALL INNNNNN" and have their teeth broken and the good player will flat, smuggle the hands i told you in the previous post, and try to outflop u or if hes on a flush or a str8 draw it doesn't matter any more how big is your cbet, he is paying it, and that`s why u play them strong out of any position early and mid in the tournament, when u get to late game then do like pro`s do but of course that's just my humble opinion, i am just telling u how i played them, and so far, just like the % they hold 82% of the time
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 53 (M)
My view on this is that it's not the other players who are at fault, it's the way you chosose to play, or your view of the outcome that is the issue. Please don't try to argue that your way is the best way. There are many ways to play poker and you need to adapt to the situation. You cannot simply rely on having a monster in your hand and keeping it going to the end every time..... Albeit Pochui may be able to claim that ! Play the situation, not your hole cards.
Joined: May '08
Age: 32 (M)
Hello all the wonderful mobsters out there, this is your friend flashfaust01 from Japan, somewhere in Asia writing to you, wish a good day to each and everyone of you
in our country full of kamikaze's there's a saying: if you can't beat them- join them.
I am very happy to be a part of such a great community, wish you the best of luck at the tables, off the tables, behind the tables, under the tables and in your life in general. Yours truly flashfaust01
Change your bet sizes and change the way you think about chasers. Like theapple said, you don't want them to fold if you're ahead.
2/3 or 3/4 pot contiuation bets are more common in cash games. Or in tournament 5 years ago. Nowadays in tournaments most people play small ball. That means only raise 2x to 2.5x pre flop (unless there are limpers), and make a c-bet as big as your pre flop raise (so it's usually only about 1/3 of the pot).
This way you don't commit too many chips so if you get raised you can still fold. And you leave room for your opponents to try to bluff you when you have it, so it's win-win. Once you've mastered this style, you can even use it to be super-aggro and just bet bet bet. Small ball does not necessarily mean tight poker.
Joined: Mar '09
Age: 40 (F)
Depending on games and limits you may never get rid of them You will have to adjust your game. And of course the fact you are getting AA or KK doesnt mean that the specific hands are yours to win You are going to lose many time with them, and that is a fact, and this regardless how well you played the hand.
Posted by damosk: My view on this is that it's not the other players who are at fault, it's the way you choose to play, or your view of the outcome that is the issue. Please don't try to argue that your way is the best way. There are many ways to play poker and you need to adapt to the situation. You cannot simply rely on having a monster in your hand and keeping it going to the end every time..... Albeit Pochui may be able to claim that ! Play the situation, not your hole cards.
I do try to adapt to my surroundings. I am well aware that the monsters do not always win and that plenty speculative hands can scupper my ACES and KINGS.
In mtts it's tricky to get to know your opponents when you are moved table due to table balancing constantly etc. And or people are tilting and I have not seen how they lost chips etc due to being at a different table (unless people are ripping them on chat).
In cash games I play them completely different than I do in tourneys Still raise but not as big as I want max cash for them. I really appreciate all the feedback though I will try to mix it up a bit more.