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  26-Mar-16, 22:57   #1
What can i do 0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 72 (M)
Posts: 3444
I was playing the BRM leaderboard freeroll this afternoon ET. Early in the game blind were 25/50 i am on the button with K K only one limper before me.

I raised to 400.00 the BB with small stack go all-in with a little bit over 500.00 the limper call and i can't re raise i have to call J 3 Q he check and i pushed all-in and he called with K 10o the turn no problem but the river come with an Ace for his straight. Aww crap! Aww crap!

Did i played it bad or just unlucky. Question Question

     
  26-Mar-16, 23:04   #2
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
The fact that the BB had only 500 chips was an important piece of information to you for how to play the hand correctly.

When the big blind has so few chips left, they are always very likely to shove... If you would have raised to just 150 or 175, the BB goes all in and you have the limper trapped in the middle... He'll almost certainly call the 500, then you can shove all in over the top...

Look for all available ways to take advantage while at the table.

     
  26-Mar-16, 23:16   #3
  0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 72 (M)
Posts: 3444
Posted by yout85:
The fact that the BB had only 500 chips was an important piece of information to you for how to play the hand correctly.

When the big blind has so few chips left, they are always very likely to shove... If you would have raised to just 150 or 175, the BB goes all in and you have the limper trapped in the middle... He'll almost certainly call the 500, then you can shove all in over the top...

Look for all available ways to take advantage while at the table.


Thanks i never thought of this one. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

     
  26-Mar-16, 23:39   #4
  0 
vic75 
Joined: Sep '10
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1912
Fact is its a BRM Freeroll so any two face cards and were Allin every time was playing one the other day and my KQ got crushed by a 95 hearts pre flop Allin flush hit and out I think the bigger the freeroll Dollar Dollar the more serious the play raise Allin pre flop with KK might get the limpers to fold.

     
  27-Mar-16, 00:47   #5
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1453
Posted by pinotte:
Posted by yout85:
The fact that the BB had only 500 chips was an important piece of information to you for how to play the hand correctly.

When the big blind has so few chips left, they are always very likely to shove... If you would have raised to just 150 or 175, the BB goes all in and you have the limper trapped in the middle... He'll almost certainly call the 500, then you can shove all in over the top...

Look for all available ways to take advantage while at the table.


Thanks i never thought of this one. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


Next question is would you fold when villain shove on flop ? in his position ( small stack with open ended straight draw ) I will do it! I wish you give your opinion yout85
Smile

the more serious the play raise Allin pre flop with KK might get the limpers to fold.

Read more: http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...

Yes, in early MTT I usually do it, but against opponent with small stack like villain ? I am sure he will call. How do you do in his position ?

     
  27-Mar-16, 00:56   #6
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Serpang, as it was played, my answer is no... I wouldn't fold on the flop to a shove... because the only hands you're behind with KK are all so unlikely.

But you're looking for the wrong reasoning pre flop... you talk of getting them to fold - with KK preflop... you don't want your opponent to fold - you want them to put as many chips into the pot as possible... and so your play should be thought out with only that in mind.

Always first think of what you want to achieve... then figure out how.

     
  27-Mar-16, 01:13   #7
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by pinotte:


Did i played it bad or just unlucky. Question Question


nah, well played. just unlucky..

     
  27-Mar-16, 01:21   #8
  +1 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Posted by T3ddyKGB:

nah, well played. just unlucky..


No... If you want to learn and improve, you need to not gloss over things like this as just "unlucky"... the sizing of the raise was an error.

     
  27-Mar-16, 01:24   #9
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
beside its a freeroll.. the blinds were 25/50 he raised to 400. whats wrong with his raise?

     
  27-Mar-16, 01:31   #10
  0 
bowie1984 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 4440
That is the problem with limpers generally IMO...
Some of them will speculate with their hands especially out of position; some of them just want to see the flop with any Kx, Ax and some of them have no idea whatsoever why is he doing things with what cards - now they are the ones who'll call you off with anything.
Yout was right. Don't overbet from that position - just simply try to make it harder seeing the flop cheaply for them (esp. if they hold marginal hands) and that way u could bully them with a re-raise into getting serious...
Of course the key here was the BB.

     
  27-Mar-16, 02:19   #11
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
beside its a freeroll.. the blinds were 25/50 he raised to 400. whats wrong with his raise?


I wrote a really long explanation as to just what exactly was wrong with the raise, but when I had finished, the site was down.

Basically, poker is all about getting as much of your money in when you're in front as you can - with every hand, you have to figure out how to do that.

To anyone who doesn't understand what I said with my first reply, please say so and I'll be happy to explain.

     
  27-Mar-16, 09:03   #12
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1453
Posted by yout85:
Posted by T3ddyKGB:

nah, well played. just unlucky..


No... If you want to learn and improve, you need to not gloss over things like this as just "unlucky"... .


I like this opinion Thumbs Up Thumbs Up I thought like that before but don't find best solution yet. Just follow basic theory for now : shove in any position at early phase MTT ( with best 5 )

the sizing of the raise was an error
I don't understand this . So how many ?

Read more: http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...


Thanks for your answer for my question above, I just don't want someone with bad hand involve what ever their reason ( we always don't know ) - like bowie post.

Please give more explanation
Smile Smile

Edited by Serpang (Sunday, March 27, 2016 @ 09:07 GMT)


     
  27-Mar-16, 09:33   #13
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Sure... I'll run through everything that would have gone through my mind in that hand...

Preflop:

Nice... pocket kings. Big blind has just lost two thirds of his stack, so they're almost certain to call all in.... I hope someone else raises though. That would be nice... hmmmm one limper. He has the same size stack as me.... I want it. How do I get it? Right - I need to get the most amount of chips possible into this pot before the flop... don't wanna give him a cheap flop and an ace to come out... then I won't know where I stand and can't call for 1000 if he shoves.... I have to get all in pre flop here. If I just shove... I'm pretty sure bb will call... but limper will probably fold. It's his stack I want... how can I exploit the situation? I have to show as little amount of strength as possible but still get all in. If I raise... bb will push all in with any two cards.... the limper will call with virtually anything hes already called with... so how much to raise. Right - it needs to be 300 or less, else I won't be able to rereraise the bb after limper has called.... I have to give him the rope to hang himself.... not a stool to stand on to stop him hanging.

I raise 150... appear weak. Bb shoves.... limper calls I resolve. If he folds I double up anyway... if he calls I'm a huge favourite to triple up. All the chips went in at my strongest point of the hand.... I'm happy. Result no longer matters. I made the right play.

     
  27-Mar-16, 10:09   #14
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 8371
i think the key word her is "freeroll". after this magic word all the tips, strategies, odds, implied odds, equity and all of other sand sipping right from your a55 is not important. me ponders that in freerolls everything is right and everything is wrong. one can easily expect to see little green men playing at the tables and gangbangs happening at the same time under the tables...

     
  27-Mar-16, 10:16   #15
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Posted by pochui:
i think the key word her is "freeroll". after this magic word all the tips, strategies, odds, implied odds, equity and all of other sand sipping right from your a55 is not important. me ponders that in freerolls everything is right and everything is wrong. one can easily expect to see little green men playing at the tables and gangbangs happening at the same time under the tables...


The same lessons can be learned, whether there's no buy in, or a million dollars buy in.

     
  27-Mar-16, 10:32   #16
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4706
I like Yout85's explanation. My initial consideration of pinotte's original post was why 400? While I accept Pochui's explanation re freerolls, I have played a few of these BRM party games this week and have experienced both situations....all in with ATC and good considered poker play. I think part of the rsolution to this situation would be PINOTTE to help us out by explaining that rationale for his 400 raise. Also, the stack sizes of PINOTTE and the limped may help too. Can you help us with that PINOTTE?

     
  27-Mar-16, 10:54   #17
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by yout85:
I wrote a really long explanation as to just what exactly was wrong with the raise, but when I had finished, the site was down.




[/QUOTE]

my bad. i just should have read your first post. then the site went down as i was gonna answer you.

now i get your point. in the end its all theory tho, and most of the time you will only collect the blinds. the raise was high enough (for me).
poker - theres no right or wrong play in my opinion, only big mistakes. Smile

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Sunday, March 27, 2016 @ 11:01 GMT)


     
  27-Mar-16, 11:15   #18
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Well actually Teddy, you're entirely wrong Tongue

In poker there is ALWAYS a right play and a wrong play. The trouble is, that you often don't get all the information you need to decide what the right play is.

This isn't one of those cases.... this is very black and white, cut and dry, no doubt about it...

By making the raise 400, it meant it was not possible to get any more than 500 chips from the villain into the pot before the flop.... by simply noticing the stack size of the big blind and making it 200 instead, he misses out on no value from the bb, but gets way more value from the limper.


I don't mean to sound condescending in any way here.... but if you can't see that 150-325 here is a good raise, but 326 and over is really bad... then you'll never be a very good poker player.

     
  27-Mar-16, 11:17   #19
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2182
Man I am so bad you are back Yout!

     
  27-Mar-16, 11:40   #20
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1987
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Man I am so bad you are back Yout!


You're not that bad Smile

And yup... for the timebeing at least, I'm back Thumbs Up

     
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