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  29-Mar-16, 15:58   #1
poker and math a myth? 0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
how much math is really involved in poker?
we know pokerclients like to coat themself, or rather said poker, with math - to make poker more attractive. thanks to hollywood...
just like McDonalds advertise their beef as the tastiest and healthiest in the world you can get and how great their cows live.. in fact, their cows are sick. its the most b******t you can eat and one of the worst things you can do to your body.
i admitt, now and then i go to McD, but i know the truth.

lets be honest, the pokerpros are no math genius. most of them probably didnt even finish school and have a math basic knowledge from the 3rd schoolyear. actually its just a bit algebra you use. there may be exceptions, and im not saying pokerplayers are fools - else i was my self a fool and i like this game. but someone who made a living by playing poker, certainly has no time to study. except those, who won once in their life a big tourny and then disappeared from the pokertables again. but you cant call someone a pro, who doesnt repeat his title or least end up on final table again.

so can you really speak about math ? since you only play 1 or maybe 10% of the necessary hands, to have a real proof. beside.. the variance is to huge for the amount of hands we play. every math professor will shake his head and say: thats no science. you have to repeat something over and over to proove it. at least its more complicated as it looks like, or as pokerrooms pretend to be..

or...how big has to be your bankroll...? someone who use a no deposit or people who deposit once in a while a few bucks to play for fun, definatly can not rely on math - again..the variance is to huge, especially if you only play a few hands per day.

online its only one mouseclick away. but if you play offline and see all the money in the pot, your starting to shake and its getting hot n cold and sometimes your about to puke and if you lose and think: "that monkey donked me out" you would like to bite in his head Big Smile
so i hardly think a so called pokerpro use math, cause your brainpower reduce to 10-30% or something if your in danger - if you have no balls and panic, then it may go to zero lol. playing poker with lots of money is a similar situation.
i think, they have more in mind how to lure someone in the pot, to call or to find out if they can bluff a person as to start thinking about math. there´s so much more in poker involved as math..

feel free to discuss.

attention: sarcasm "on"

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 16:31 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 16:19   #2
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3028
math is 90% if someone tell you other, than he doesnt know to play poker...

     
  29-Mar-16, 16:26   #3
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
90%? Shock so your a pokerbot? Big Smile

what about psychology, intiution, bluff and other things?

edit: i suck at math. i always use my fingers and count how many Heart left to get my flush Big Smile
so i just cant imagine where this 90% come from Smile

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 16:30 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 17:01   #4
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2183
I will do you a deal T3ddy

I have a coin here. It is a fair coin.
I will spin it 100 times. Every time it is heads I will give you $1. Everytime it is tails, you give me $3.

Ok?

     
  29-Mar-16, 17:18   #5
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1997
Think one dice... you and 5 other people.

You are assigned number 1, the other 5 players 2 through 6.

The 5 put $100 each per roll.. you have to put $99.

Short term... you might not win. But the more you play, the more you'll win.

It's maths. It's not an opinion. It is fact.

     
  29-Mar-16, 17:30   #6
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by IceQueenAce:
I will do you a deal T3ddy

I have a coin here. It is a fair coin.
I will spin it 100 times. Every time it is heads I will give you $1. Everytime it is tails, you give me $3.

Ok?


100 times? dear queen, i only have 10 fingers. hmm im not sure if you plan to rip me off Confused


------------
Posted by yout85:
Think one dice... you and 5 other people.

You are assigned number 1, the other 5 players 2 through 6.

The 5 put $100 each per roll.. you have to put $99.

Short term... you might not win. But the more you play, the more you'll win.

It's maths. It's not an opinion. It is fact.


cool. tomorrow im gonna start playing Lotto. i think i have to play around 3.500.000 million times the same number, then i win.

you didnt quite understand what im up to. but here you go: "But the more you play, the more you'll win."

90% do not play that often. in this case = math is irrelevant to them. also...even if you live 1000y, it wont be enough to outplay all hands, that it pays out. do not underestimate the variance.


Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 17:37 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 18:31   #7
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1997
You know the word "variance".... so...

Variance from what??

     
  29-Mar-16, 18:56   #8
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2183
I think you are being trolled yout Tongue

     
  29-Mar-16, 19:02   #9
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by yout85:
You know the word "variance".... so...

Variance from what??


now im disapointed from you Shock

if you talk about math and the "theory of probabillity" in poker, then you should know what variance in this context mean.


------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:
I think you are being trolled yout Tongue


wtf Shock im serious, no troll.

.........only sometimes Big Smile

btw, no one here who works for mcdonalds and wants to reject my accusation?

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 19:08 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 19:26   #10
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8395
poker and math a myth? well you might be onto something there dude... i'd say poker is as related to math as the height of the wall proposed to be built by trump to the numbers of mexican immigrants coming to the us of a.
others might say hey pochui there are odds, implied odds, reverse implied odds, equity and complete domination of 26off to be factored into every move you make, but that's all BS. remember- it's all rigged. we are made to believe that poker is math, in reality poker was created my masons with the aim to completely disturbing peoples brains, abilities and self confidence. poker is so evil i'm telling ya. and rigged, did i mention that?

     
  29-Mar-16, 19:31   #11
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by pochui:
poker was created my masons with the aim to completely disturbing peoples brains, abilities and self confidence.


there you go icequeenace, thats what i call a troll Big Smile

------------
Posted by pochui:
complete domination of 26off


26off is BS, but 24s rock AA anytime.

btw best hand in poker is 5/10s. you can hit small straight with the 5. you can hit the bigger one with 10 and you can get a flush !
not to forget to mention all the other possibilitys with 5/10suited...

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 19:35 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 20:03   #12
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1997
Variance means nothing unless maths is heavily involved. You cannot vary from.... nothing. The term variance refers to how your results vary from the expected outcome. Usually called expected value, or EV for short.

So admitting variance exists is admitting there is something to vary from. You have debunked your own argument with one word. I doubt very much you understand the implications of it... but luckily there are folks like me around prepared to explain it.

Whether you choose to listen or not is entirely (that's 100% with 0 variance) up to you.

     
  29-Mar-16, 20:54   #13
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by yout85:

I doubt very much you understand the implications of it... but luckily there are folks like me around prepared to explain it.



yea, i see that... you did a good job on google, yet you dont quite understand Big Smile

please insert coin......and try again.



------------
Posted by yout85:

So admitting variance exists is admitting there is something to vary from. You have debunked your own argument with one word. I doubt very much you understand the implications of it...




do you expect you are going to win 80% with AA? i hope i do not destroy your view of the world, but...hell yea, it "varies".....some win only 70% others 90%. huh, see it "varies" ?!?

thats called aswell: variance ...and it exist. Shock

you can use w.e synonym you like for it.

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 20:59 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 21:06   #14
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1997
I have had aces over 7,000 timed in around 1,500,000 hands tracked on my poker tracker.... I have won 92% of them.

So no... I don't expect to win 80% of the time with aces... I expect to win 100% of the time... and 8% of the time I'm disappointed.

What you don't seem to understand is that 80% you quote isn't your odds of winning with aces... it's your odds of winning with aces all in preflop vs one opponent. A lot of the time you raise with aces everyone will fold. A lot of the time they will fold to your follow up bet... a lot of the time they will chase a draw and miss. This is still winning with AA.

If your winning % with aces is anywhere below around 85 or 90% over a large sample, you're doing something very wrong.


I haven't once used a synonym... or even a metaphor, a simile, spoonerism or anything else. Nor did I "use google".

     
  29-Mar-16, 21:56   #15
  0 
jeffaboy 
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 20 (M)
Posts: 856
First of all yout is right in everything he says , 2nd of all if you want to s**t talk him i think ur having the wrong guy to s**t talk as imo yout is one of the best players around here on these forums. 3rd of all if you don't think that math is a big part of poker i would happily make you some offers Smile

     
  29-Mar-16, 22:05   #16
  +1 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4716
So! At the temptation of not getting involved in this I just couldn't help myself.....especially as the sarcasm switch is flicked by teddy to ON!

The math professor who claims everything has to be tested innumerate times to prove something is deluded. The test to see that a die falls randomly each time can be subject of one simple test. Just roll a die and see. As for cards, randomness (even at certain spade shaped marketed sites) is important for us all to consider how we play, however, time and time again we get disappointed that our 2-1 shot gets beaten by a 20-1 shot. Being 2-1 does not give us any right to succeed, it merely gives us greater hope of not losing. The player with the 20-1 shot is more surprised than releived when he wins and thinks he is a world poker champ.

In the end, of course math is relevant to poker.... It is cos there are numbers and stuff involved and that's what's maths is all about..... Numbers n stuff! Don't get upset cos you lose..... Understand probability and math and see it all as science. (n math)

Aww crap!

     
  29-Mar-16, 22:13   #17
  0 
Tony_MON7ANA 

Joined: Mar '14
Location: Japan
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 3660
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
how much math is really involved in poker?

I would say that of elementary school level at the poker tables.
You might need to possess an extensive knowledge of mathematics when you analyze the sessions/hands/opponents/etc., afterwards.

Edited by Tony_MON7ANA (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 22:41 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 22:25   #18
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by yout85:

What you don't seem to understand is that 80% you quote isn't your odds of winning with aces... it's your odds of winning with aces all in preflop vs one opponent.



no sh!t ??? Shock and i thought im supposed to win all the time with my aces Aww crap! tell me something new....

all the time your trying to hang something around my neck: "you dont seem to understand bla bla blubb" like i dont know its preflop. everyone knows what i mean but you Big Smile

if you check the other thread (if you need a link, just say so), you will see that i wrote 80% "PREFLOP". thought im in a pokerforum and dont need to mention it every 5 seconds, because everyone know about it *roll eyes* but here are obviously some grandmas who need for everything an instruction.

that all you can? to draw something out of your fingers? things i never said? just suggestions? pffft lol

nice try......try again..... Blink




------------
Posted by jeffaboy:
First of all yout is right in everything he says


im sorry Sad i didnt mean to insult your pokergod Big Smile

i have seen alot "pokerpros" on BRM, they seemed to have at least basic knowledge about poker....at end it turned out they were losing players.... Shock so... Big Smile

if you spend some time to look for certain threads, you might find one.

its internet. you can pretend to be anyone....pilot, brain surgeon....take your chance and be someone you aint in your real life !! Big Smile

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 22:33 GMT)


     
  29-Mar-16, 22:51   #19
  -1 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1997
Since I've been on here I've gave away hundreds of dollars to other Mobsters... I also like to think I have given a lot of good advice.

Maybe a lot of people giving advice ARE losing players. I am not.

yout85
Yout
yout_1985
YoutBRM

That's all of my screen names.

You can decide for yourself whether you take my advice... but don't tell me I'm wrong when you clearly have no clue.

     
  29-Mar-16, 23:06   #20
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1781
Posted by yout85:

You can decide for yourself whether you take my advice... but don't tell me I'm wrong when you clearly have no clue.


likewise. dont tell ME im wrong when you clearly have no clue. if you think only one way is the right way, well thats kinda short thinking.

giving a advice to someone who ask for is cool, but not to those who dont ask for or to force to change their play.
i still dont know why your giving me advices and what kind of advise you mean? like i said, i never asked for help Confused
do you see me complaining about poker or something, somewhere? hmm...

all i did was opening a thread to discuss to see other opinions (not advices), not more..




Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 23:13 GMT)


     
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