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  4-Jun-16, 17:20   #1
folding aces - what??? 0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
So I just happened to be glancing through the party poker school, after clicking accidently, and they give a couple of scenarios.

Most are straight forward, but then there was this one, which I totally disagree with.

Anyone able to convince me they are right and I am wrong?



Q. It's the middle stage of a tournament, pre-flop, and you are one of two chip leaders at the table (he’s a bit ahead of you – the other players don’t even come close). He moves all-in, but you have two aces. Do you call or fold?



A. Again, this is obvious. You fold, even though you’ve got the best hand. This player is the only one who can send you home, so if you call, you're going to be out the tournament about 38% of the time. Better to pick off the less risky opponents first and go after the big money later.

     
  4-Jun-16, 17:28   #2
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
hmmz instacall in my opinion lol, but hey im no pro.. Big Smile

btw i stop reading this pokerschool stuff long ago. i started playing really bad, so i took a break and played my personal style of poker again - and guess what, i started winning again Big Smile
this pokerschool thingy just confused me.

edit: i probably would fold if im close to the money, since he´s the only one who could kick me out. but in the middle of the tournament Confused

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Saturday, June 04, 2016 @ 17:36 GMT)


     
  4-Jun-16, 17:55   #3
  0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 73 (M)
Posts: 3499
I really don't know where they take their 38%. I always read that A A HU is favourite 80%.

However big stack IMO means that the guy is in a lucky one but i would never fold this kind of hand and i wont try to convince you.

Are they telling where they take there 38% Question Question

     
  4-Jun-16, 18:02   #4
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6235
Folding aces preflop may be correct in a DON here and there, but in a normal tourney far away from the bubble? No way. And the odds for a knockout are doubious too. There seems to something wrong with that school

     
  4-Jun-16, 18:09   #5
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
After my other half posted it on sky poker forums and got similar answers to here, we have posted it to party's facebook page

lets see if it gets approved

     
  4-Jun-16, 18:32   #6
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
38%? It's more like 20% or better...

I suppose what they mean is that with only tiny stacks left you are guaranteed 1st or 2nd place, so why call for all your chips?

E.g. if 1st place pays $150 and 2nd place $100:
Calling is 80% * $150 and 20% * $0 ===> EV is $120
Folding is 50% * $150 and 50% * $100 ===> EV is $125

If it really were 38% though folding would be a much better option:
Calling is 62% * $150 and 38% * $0 ===> EV is $93
Folding is 50% * $150 and 50% * $100 ===> EV is $125

This is all assuming the tiny stacks won't play any role in the outcome...

     
  4-Jun-16, 18:34   #7
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
Middle stage of a tournament



     
  4-Jun-16, 18:44   #8
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Middle stage of a tournament



Yeah it's ludicrous. It only works if all players left in the tournament have insignificant stacks. Why even mention such an unlikely scenario? It teaches the wrong things IMO. Especially if no mention is made of ICM...

Edited by marqis (Saturday, June 04, 2016 @ 19:00 GMT)


     
  4-Jun-16, 18:49   #9
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
ive posted it to party

hopefully they fix it

     
  4-Jun-16, 19:01   #10
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
I just looked it up, and it's under "Tournaments" not "Multi table tournaments". They are talking about STT here...

For STT it makes more sense, in this extreme scenario.

     
  4-Jun-16, 19:18   #11
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
ok, today im a bit drunk Smile so go easy on me...

regarding STT > it only makes sense in DON´s like shokaku said imo, but thats all.

just stick to your "Why even mention such an unlikely scenario?" and we are all fine Big Smile

     
  4-Jun-16, 19:24   #12
  0 
mirexxx 
Joined: Sep '11
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2732
Its very rare but its ok to fold on the bubble if you really really need to min cash for some reason. using good BR management you should never be in this spot and should be able to play your AA.

     
  4-Jun-16, 20:09   #13
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 518
its more then 80% for win so your 38% is really funny Smile

i am insta calling in this spot with huge smile Smile
i play for win not for getting ITM Dollar Dollar

     
  4-Jun-16, 20:18   #14
  0 
pajalnick 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 2682
Posted by IceQueenAce:

A. Again, this is obvious. You fold, even though you�ve got the best hand. This player is the only one who can send you home, so if you call, you're going to be out the tournament about 38% of the time. Better to pick off the less risky opponents first and go after the big money later.

I prefer to take the risk and say ... although pokerstars now and fulltilt two aces is likely to lose
Worship Worship
strange all the same random number generator on PokerStars usually wins at Ollin chipleader Confused

     
  4-Jun-16, 20:19   #15
  0 
SBEP 

Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 977
Well is coz, u r up against a big stack, or a stack the covers you, so they automatically go, what happens if u lose, well u go home, unlike if u pushed allin against a stack thats 30% of your stack, then its alright, but to fold AA in to a one hand shove, i dont care if he covers me with his stack im calling every day of the year in the situation Big Smile im only 81% favorite, i am fine with those odds Big Smile

     
  4-Jun-16, 20:24   #16
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
It says middle stage of the tournament so i would have called.
It is a chance to double your stack with the best hand there is.
If this situation was in final table i would have folded at once, waiting for the smaller stacks
to lose first Smile

     
  5-Jun-16, 11:20   #17
  0 
dule-vu 

Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 3260
well if you fold on AA,on what would you pay then?poker isnt more,what was before!everyting is different!maybe if you dont have lot of chips and 1,2 position before payout,then to consider and to miss that hand,but in middle of tournament,come on!

     
  5-Jun-16, 12:49   #18
  0 
3pokeronly 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 233
If it is a 50/50 perfect sense otherwise bollocks.

Ballshavings all

3p out

     
  5-Jun-16, 13:06   #19
  0 
arsenej1 

Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 3021
Cannot see folding aces to any hand preflop...id call allin even if the whole table is allin ahead of me

     
  5-Jun-16, 13:15   #20
  0 
Tony_MON7ANA 

Joined: Mar '14
Location: Japan
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 4132
Posted by IceQueenAce:
. . . so if you call, you're going to be out the tournament about 38% of the time. . . .

That number might be applicable to the average all-in equity of pocket Kings (62%?) versus the entire pre-flop shoving range of a single opponent.

Edited by Tony_MON7ANA (Sunday, June 05, 2016 @ 13:33 GMT)


     
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