Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
I couldn't just play premium hand, never won just play premium hand. And play 'save' just brought me won a little ( a bit below average). But play loose, mostly I lost. Facing hand ( below) put dilemma on me.At first I was sure my card would win...but...finally I fold. Please give me advise
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20405
well its hard now to comment when we see every card,but I think that you could play at first hand more and it wasnt so much 1700 chips more to pay,when you already payed nice number of chips!it wasnt situation that you need to pay all in on flush draw! on second hand you done everything good,ofcourse you wouldnt pay preflop all in on 7 5 h!
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Montenegro
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 636
You played good, but sometimes need more courage but than you can go out of tournament. I sometime follow my intuition or softwer when dealt me good hands in a row i than call with anything just to see when this row will stop
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Romania
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 13301
It is difficult to pay for such situation with J 7 clubs. After the turn that player has raised too much and it was normal to fold. These hands are not so heavy and they are not weird. These hands are not bizarre and the players did not give the impression that there was anything bizarre, so you can lose your confidence. If i post few hands here and how it was played, then yes. It was very strange but your hands is fine.
Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 4358
first hand you can call.. you have nice odds... but fold is also understandable.... you can go eather way... you had gutshot and FD.... second hand.... I dont know why are you showing this? 75s in CO is fold when you are facing opening... what cards come after doesnt matter... it only matter that you are making correct decisions... try to play evry single hand theoreticly correct and you will see profit specialy at those micros
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20405
play more freerolls if you scared how you will play on real money tables,but if you dont play you will not learn anything,so dont stop playing!you can always take break,if you lose lot of money,but if not,then just play at everything will come on right place!
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Posted by dule-vu: play more freerolls if you scared how you will play on real money tables,but if you dont play you will not learn anything,so dont stop playing!you can always take break,if you lose lot of money,but if not,then just play at everything will come on right place!
I think should be play like this two villain who play full confidence ( ? ) Like StheP said : live or die with it .The big problem is knowing the right time ,lol. Maybe I should take a break longer, Yesterday was my second day play poker after 5 days break.
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
When I feel that my confidence just isn't there, it's better to just take a break. You know, gather your thoughts, get your mindset in a good place. Do something fun and don't worry about poker for a few days, even a couple of weeks. Then when you get back into it, you get a nice fresh start with a more positive attitude.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
Serpang. Its not about confidence, its about understanding the game. Consider this.
What did you have the player who raised to 500 on? Was your holding such that could beat that hand?
In any event, you probably had reasonable odds to call, however, consider why are you calling? You are letting the first raiser to stay in the game and you are allowing the other limper cheaply into the game....with no clue what he has. Could you have raised and wiped one or both of them out? Or if you had them on a hand, was your hand such that you should now fold pre flop.
The board is quit kind to you. Your check is giving a huge message to the other two players! You have nothing but a possible drawing hand. The way you played pre flop supports this. The round of min calls is pretty soft. What has everyone got?
On the turn...... what do you think has changed for the second player that allows him to raise about 3/4 of the pot? What have you got him on? What are you thinking? He made two pair? He has trip 3's? Would he have limped from his position with a pair of threes? Maybe?
Then what do you think when the next player calls his raise? What has happened for him to now raise so much that he didn't on the flop? Remember...what did you put him on when he raised pre flop? Has he got a premium hand?
Now....YOUR FOLD. Its so easy to fold here! However, just consider this. There is 6067 in the pot, of which only 750 is yours. You have to call 1728 to see the river. 1728 of 6067 is just better than 3-1. If you add you initial 750 then its worse then 3-1 and closer to 5-2.
You have a flush and straight draw. You have 12 outs. At best that's 7-2. (However the 2c has already come out unbeknown to you, so that reduces your outs slightly.) Would a shove push these two off? (Doubtful by now) Is a call worth it? You will still have 4000 chip left which won't be too far off what the other players at your table had!
So....is 3-1 that far from 7-2? Its your call. Also remember,. you have paid .55C to enter this tournament and I am guessing you aren't even in the top half of players at this mid stage of the tourney.
The key to your decision making here is....did you understand your odds and did you want to win or not want to lose?
The other and perhaps even more important point is, what did you have to lose? Nothing! When you buy into a tournament, you should say goodbye to your buy in. It's gone. You can afford to lose it. Yet you have been hesitant here as you dont want to lose. The most important thing is wanting to win!
As for the second hand...so often we would have won if we had gone all in with 75suited. LOL. Forget about hand that you could have won had you made the wrong call at the start!
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Thanks all for your nice comment and analyze!! I will try to realize it when play often forgot when playing or too short thinking time. I wish I will play better so will not disappoint you and I wish useful to remind you
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20405
well in this situation with KK no matter what that you do,probably you will lost that hand!I mean no matter what preflop raise that you had or that even you had preflop all in,he would payed you,so you didnt do anything wrong,just didnt had luck with cards to lose on flush!
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Posted by dule-vu: well in this situation with KK no matter what that you do,probably you will lost that hand!I mean no matter what preflop raise that you had or that even you had preflop all in,he would payed you,so you didnt do anything wrong,just didnt had luck with cards to lose on flush!
I am not sure right or wrong. But I think I made bad decision with call his shove, cause : He check raised, big possibility he had 55, A5s, AA, any suited D which possible to beat me ( yes, in this micro so many player do that with any other pair, semi bluff and wish catch set on turn or river ). That's very early tourney ( first hour ), my stack good enough at that time, so why I risk my stack ? seem no chance after that.
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Romania
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 13301
These hands have no weight and they are hands of young children. If you think these hands are not right then you forget what poker means. Color enters quite often and that hand it was OK. You lose too much confidence for nothing.
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 2064
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by dule-vu: well in this situation with KK no matter what that you do,probably you will lost that hand!I mean no matter what preflop raise that you had or that even you had preflop all in,he would payed you,so you didnt do anything wrong,just didnt had luck with cards to lose on flush!
I am not sure right or wrong. But I think I made bad decision with call his shove, cause : He check raised, big possibility he had 55, A5s, AA, any suited D which possible to beat me ( yes, in this micro so many player do that with any other pair, semi bluff and wish catch set on turn or river ). That's very early tourney ( first hour ), my stack good enough at that time, so why I risk my stack ? seem no chance after that.
There is very little chance his huge overbet shove is any of the hands you mention above. Certainly not flopped quads or full house. It is, almost always, a flush draw or maybe 99, TT in that situation. You made absolutely the right play, as with the 75s and J7s and should not be influenced by the result.
Keep making correct decisions and you'll be fine
------------ One thing to maybe consider with the KK hand is your preflop raise sizing, and how that may have impacted on how the hand played out.
If you had raised to 300 instead of 540, you would have been continuation betting into a pot of around 1000 instead of nearly 2000... meaning you would be betting around 450 instead of 900, making the all in shove considerably less likely on the flop.... and making it much more likely you just get flat called. This way, he hits flush on turn and either bets into you and you call 2 streets, or he check raises so you can shut down or even fold. Either way, you lose considerably less chips than as played.
So effectively... as played, your call is fine (and entirely correct), but could maybe have been avoided by better sizing preflop. Just something to think about.
LOL, we facing case like that thousand times, but how many % win by us ? Doyle Brunson wrote at his book : usually who go all in first win, seems doesn't make sense, but....? maybe we have to consider that....but in your case I agree what you did.
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20405
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by dule-vu: well in this situation with KK no matter what that you do,probably you will lost that hand!I mean no matter what preflop raise that you had or that even you had preflop all in,he would payed you,so you didnt do anything wrong,just didnt had luck with cards to lose on flush!
I am not sure right or wrong. But I think I made bad decision with call his shove, cause : He check raised, big possibility he had 55, A5s, AA, any suited D which possible to beat me ( yes, in this micro so many player do that with any other pair, semi bluff and wish catch set on turn or river ). That's very early tourney ( first hour ), my stack good enough at that time, so why I risk my stack ? seem no chance after that.
I think that you was sure that he dont have 5,but you couldnt know what he have,especially flush draw!I think that nobody would fold KK on this flop,you couldnt know does he have J J or QQ and in that case your hand would be stronger!for me you didnt do wrong move!
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1042
in the first hand for me it was fold in the pre-flop but after deciding to play it I do not understand the reason why with so many out you decided to fold after the turn. And the second hand was a very clear fold you had nothing to do calling that hand regardless of the result of the hand good fold in the preflop.
In conclusion from my point of view and with this I do not mean that I am right both hands were fold in the pre-flop.
I think your hand was not strong enough to make big bets ... on the other hand, your opponent could just bluff and end up winning big money because you were afraid to bet .... it's hard to say what was in the end .. but I usually prefer to take risks ... won means win ... lose means lose
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20405
so didn something changed in last days or weeks in your playing?did any advice help you on your play?we didnt hear anything about this from you,after you made this thread!if you have some break from playing or something else,then ok,but if you play,write us few words!
