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10

BLOG: Bullying

Tags: blog, blogger IceQueenAce.
Blog post published on Tuesday, March 10, 2015, written by IceQueenAce.
IceQueenAce avatar
IceQueenAce
Female, 38, UK

Bullying in poker has two meanings and sadly, both are prevalent. You will likely see it on tables and forums on a daily basis. The first kind of bullying is the ‘at the table bullying', using your stack to build more of a stack. This is part of poker and I won't be discussing this, mainly because I am not qualified to do so, not being a good enough player.

The bullying I am here to discuss is the kind of bullying that is designed to humiliate and upset someone. I am sure we have all seen it online on a fairly regular basis.

I play on one smaller site where everyone tends to know each other. There are two guys who deliberately chose a ‘target', usually someone who has outplayed one of them, and then proceed to lambast them using sharkscope following their unfortunate victim from table to table and verbally abusing them. They invariably get a chat ban for a set amount of time, before coming back with a vengeance. This is deliberate bullying and has no place at any poker table of mine!

There is also the kind that usually comes after beating someone in a hand, which usually casts aspersions on ones parenthood or mothers inbreeding and really needs no more said about it!

Another form of bullying is the usual ‘omg you called with bottom pair/93o' etc and is designed to humiliate. This annoys me more than anything and leads to me speaking out against the perpetrator. Firstly, if you tap the glass then the player can only get better. Secondly, what gives you the right to tell someone what cards to play when they have paid their money for their chips. They have every right to play any cards in any way they wish and should be able to without fear of humiliation, ridicule or abuse.

But there is another kind too, one that I view as ‘accidental bullying' and can more often than not be seen on forums. I think it is very easy to fall into the trap of not being as socially aware online as we are in real life. I personally think, before you reply to a post, think how you would reply if you were talking to someone in real life. If you don't understand what someone is saying then saying something like ‘I am sorry, could you be a bit more clear on that' is always going to be better received than ‘omg we can never understand you, sort it out blah blah blah', which frankly might get you a bit of a slap in real life. Similarly, disagreeing with someones point of view is MUCH better than just disagreeing with the person.

If we all take a moment to think about how we are acting online, it would surely be a happier place for all and membership may well just grow on our forums.

Just something to think about. If not you, who? If not now, when?

 


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24 comments for "Bullying"

 doubletop7773/10/2015 9:24:02 AM GMT
There does seem to be quite a lot of this going on and it doesnt bother me but i am very thick skinned and not everybody is like me. Just remember the old adage of 'sticks and stones' and you cant go far wrong
 westside19503/10/2015 10:47:28 AM GMT
When someone posts in chat something like '' OMG, you called me with 4th pair, donk'' I know they are weak and powerless and don't know what to do, so they need to write something just to feel better.
I never respond to that, but then I'm sure I'm the better player, so I never thought of that as a bullying.
If it stars to annoy you, you block the chat.( I know that pokerstars has that option)
 luisexy693/10/2015 12:58:33 PM GMT
For what i understand of poker and other games, we do bullying, in a respectful manner, the point in the game is win and steal the chips of the oponent, so is ok.
Be a target like you say one pokersite for how do that is because they not have more to do, and if continuous doing the deliberate humiliation by chat just ignore the guys and keep playing, is the better way.
And yes we have to talk in foruns like we do in real life, for all understand each other and get the respect that we deserve.
 bowie19843/10/2015 1:48:46 PM GMT
Every room (software) more or less have an option to not be part of the chat at all. You could turn it off, block or just playinly ignore if you choose some other tab next to it. Boom, end of story.
Yes, bullying could be problematic if your heart made out of porcelain, but in this century if you don't have a thicker skin (in real life) you'll eventually have more problems than getting worked up in a pokersite.
 amscafeaus3/10/2015 1:51:27 PM GMT
I think you fail to understand that "bullying" is part of the game. Any table talk that is not expressly forbidden by the poker room or the website staff is, by definition part of the game. One has to learn how to deal with this as part of learning the game. If your game is disrupted by it...TURN OFF CHAT. If like most players you enjoy some ribbing at the unlucky persons expense(or the lucky person) then by all means join in. In no free country any place in the world can you tell someone WHAT NOT TO SAY! You either do not listen to the "bullying," join in and give as good as you get or just plain ignore it. Poker is a lot like life that way. You have to watch out for yourself.
 Skpmorita3/10/2015 1:56:54 PM GMT
bullying usually happens more in tournament with tickets to be won
like the other day i was playing tournament that grants tickets to the sunday million satellite
few to go .. i was sitting with large stack and other guy also have big stack
i sit out since i was guranteed a ticket
but this guy keep raising big and the small stacks were getting tired of him since they had to fold their good hands to his random hand because it wasnt worth it
so i stepped up like a hero and played him
i took most of his stacks .. he had to play tight to get a ticket
 pajalnick3/10/2015 3:32:24 PM GMT
I think that bullying is part of the game. You can intimidate chatting. And you can do so much at stake. Only continually bully large bid is not received. Contender sooner or later understand that this is such a strategy game, and will respond to your bet. Therefore, if you do it, then do it gently and constantly ...
 pinotte3/10/2015 3:40:13 PM GMT
Again avery good bloge i love to read you IQA you it is always very intesting.

I agree with you that a player that paid for is chips have the right to play any cards that he want to however sometime it is very frustrating but i will not make to many comments onley ?????? i dont think this is bullying.

The last part of it is forum or any social network it is very true that many peoples will write thinks there that they would not do face to face.

Again thanks for your writing and hope to read you again soon meanwhile good luck to you. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
 klash233/10/2015 3:44:52 PM GMT
A good blog IQA.....The story you tell of two players purposely following a player sounds more serious than your average retaliatory bullying and I never understand why it is not dealt with seriously by the site.
In forums such as this one it can be quite hard to determine what is bullying and what is lost in translation.I think some people do mistake sarcasm or bad taste humour as "bullying".
In real life the malicious people soon show their true colours and whether it is in the street or in a forum an ass is always an ass. Blink
Compared to most forums I think BRM is very good, and the forum will usually police itself.There are a couple of guys who maybe go too far and will usually be told but I have never seen much nasty abuse going to anyone.
 marqis3/10/2015 4:04:38 PM GMT
Don't turn off chat... It's free information.
When 2 players are going at it, it usually affects their range. Often they don't want to lose with the other player as a witness, and will fold easier. Or they get very loose with each other in an attempt to bust one another. Either way it's gold to the other players at the table...

The same goes with expressing friendship, they are less likely to call/reraise a big raise by the other.
 Tony_MON7ANA3/10/2015 6:50:21 PM GMT
"A guy is a lump like a doughnut. So, first you gotta get rid of all the stuff his mom did to him. And then you gotta get rid of all that macho crap that they pick up from beer commercials. And then there's my personal favorite, the male ego."

- Roseanne Barr

 IceQueenAce3/10/2015 7:43:46 PM GMT
Posted by bowie1984:
Every room (software) more or less have an option to not be part of the chat at all. You could turn it off, block or just playinly ignore if you choose some other tab next to it. Boom, end of story.
Yes, bullying could be problematic if your heart made out of porcelain, but in this century if you don't have a thicker skin (in real life) you'll eventually have more problems than getting worked up in a pokersite.


Why though? Why should I have to miss out on some quite valuable information and why should I not have the choice to join chat without fear of abuse?

I am very thick skinned and have been through more than most people in life.

It isn't that it affects me, but that I should have the right to play without it happening.

------------
Posted by amscafeaus:
I think you fail to understand that "bullying" is part of the game. Any table talk that is not expressly forbidden by the poker room or the website staff is, by definition part of the game. One has to learn how to deal with this as part of learning the game. If your game is disrupted by it...TURN OFF CHAT. If like most players you enjoy some ribbing at the unlucky persons expense(or the lucky person) then by all means join in. In no free country any place in the world can you tell someone WHAT NOT TO SAY! You either do not listen to the "bullying," join in and give as good as you get or just plain ignore it. Poker is a lot like life that way. You have to watch out for yourself.


Mostly it IS expressly forbidden and people get chat banned or warned.

If you 'enjoy some ribbing at the unlucky persons expense' then frankly, that kind of risks making you a bully. If you laugh at someone's expense, that is bullying.

Indeed you are wrong, in just about EVERY free country you can tell people what not to say. I would be interested to hear if you have a country in particular?

Why should it be ignored?
If something is wrong, why shouldn't people stand up for what is right?

Because that is effectively what it is, standing up for what is right

------------
Posted by klash23:

In forums such as this one it can be quite hard to determine what is bullying and what is lost in translation.I think some people do mistake sarcasm or bad taste humour as "bullying".


I should add to this, I don't think ANYONE on this forum is a bully, and admin act pretty quickly to get rid of the dross if it becomes as issue.

But that doesn't mean that at times we all (and I include myself), slip into behaviour that could be misconstrued as bullying.

It is just something to be aware of when we post negatively imo
 Openphase3/10/2015 10:22:38 PM GMT
Do you folks think there is a difference between 'intimidation' and 'bullying'? Certainly intimidation is a tactic in poker and has been since I've been playing (I am 62). Certainly targetinng a person post play is just plain wrong. The explosion of online poker has sadly brought some the worst net behavior with it. My experience has been more 'plus' than 'minus', and for every 'bad apple that crosses my poker path I usually find a dozen or so good souls.

I leave you with a post from the old USENET forums.

"A true troll (nee bully) needs a reaction, without one, he or she is left alone and empty"

Openphase (FullTilt: AlienJosh)
 StheP3/10/2015 10:30:24 PM GMT
Posted by Openphase:
I am 62

we got liar here
Age: 59 (M)
xD
 Openphase3/11/2015 1:36:29 PM GMT
Copy of email sent to BRM support:

"I posted my first forum comment in which I mention my age --62-- an eagle eyed 'Mobster' pointed out that my registration age was 59. I don't know if I made a typo --when registering-- or I subconsciously wished to be 50'ish instead of 60'ish Smile but I cannot find a way to make the correction. My accurate birth date is December 20, 1952. Can you correct please or direct me on correct method."

To StheP: Someday you'll be 62 and understand Confused

Damn I feel like I just got 'carded' oh yea... the (M) is correct I just checked.
 arsenej13/11/2015 1:44:53 PM GMT
Posted by Openphase:
Copy of email sent to BRM support:

"I posted my first forum comment in which I mention my age --62-- an eagle eyed 'Mobster' pointed out that my registration age was 59. I don't know if I made a typo --when registering-- or I subconsciously wished to be 50'ish instead of 60'ish Smile but I cannot find a way to make the correction. My accurate birth date is December 20, 1952. Can you correct please or direct me on correct method."

To StheP: Someday you'll be 62 and understand Confused

Damn I feel like I just got 'carded' oh yea... the (M) is correct I just checked.


Its good to hear the (M) is correct and noticeable. Some dudes arnt fortunate enough to even see there (M). I really hope my (M) is still intact and in good working order when i hit 62. Goodluck at the poker tables.
 bowie19843/11/2015 2:11:38 PM GMT
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by bowie1984:
Every room (software) more or less have an option to not be part of the chat at all. You could turn it off, block or just playinly ignore if you choose some other tab next to it. Boom, end of story.
Yes, bullying could be problematic if your heart made out of porcelain, but in this century if you don't have a thicker skin (in real life) you'll eventually have more problems than getting worked up in a pokersite.


Why though? Why should I have to miss out on some quite valuable information and why should I not have the choice to join chat without fear of abuse?

I am very thick skinned and have been through more than most people in life.

It isn't that it affects me, but that I should have the right to play without it happening.

Because the norms of society always shifting. Yes, bullying is wrong and disgusting - especially if somebody using it as a sport to pick on others - but at the same time is probably as old as mankind.
And in a competitive field as poker you cannot expect from somebody to not use anything he/she has got to gain advantage, to eff up your rhytm. That is why.
Plenty times they will using it to release frustration and plenty times they are just using it to gain advantage.
Some moderator won't solve this over night and you kind of need to make peace of the fact that people hardly change. Ever. Poker just full of these people, so when you sit down to a table you already know that no flashy move or pot takedown will gain you enough respect there to keep yourself out of their reach, when they start to bully. This is how it's works, you accept it when you login to the software.
 StheP3/11/2015 2:16:01 PM GMT
I hope I will get to 62 Big Smile Anyway wellcome to forum, and I hope you will have a lot of fun here Blink
 klash233/11/2015 4:03:44 PM GMT
With the massive increase in people using email and text to communicate with each other you would think people would become less sensitive to the written word but that appears to be far from the case.
People are all different and it is impossible to please everyone but I think most people try not to upset others.A good subject to blog about as there is no easy solution for this kind of problem. Smile
 IceQueenAce3/11/2015 5:15:50 PM GMT
Posted by bowie1984:
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by bowie1984:
Every room (software) more or less have an option to not be part of the chat at all. You could turn it off, block or just playinly ignore if you choose some other tab next to it. Boom, end of story.
Yes, bullying could be problematic if your heart made out of porcelain, but in this century if you don't have a thicker skin (in real life) you'll eventually have more problems than getting worked up in a pokersite.


Why though? Why should I have to miss out on some quite valuable information and why should I not have the choice to join chat without fear of abuse?

I am very thick skinned and have been through more than most people in life.

It isn't that it affects me, but that I should have the right to play without it happening.

Because the norms of society always shifting. Yes, bullying is wrong and disgusting - especially if somebody using it as a sport to pick on others - but at the same time is probably as old as mankind.
And in a competitive field as poker you cannot expect from somebody to not use anything he/she has got to gain advantage, to eff up your rhytm. That is why.


I totally disagree.

It only becomes a norm of society when people allow it to become normal.
All the time we stand against it, is not normal and something can be done about it.

People say things online in all forms, not just poker. And it isn't because they are looking for an advantage, it is because they are simply bullying.

They WOULDNT do it in real life because frankly, they would get a punch in the mouth for it. So they do it online where they can have a degree of anominity (sp?).

I would say they are anything but normal.

------------
Posted by klash23:
With the massive increase in people using email and text to communicate with each other you would think people would become less sensitive to the written word but that appears to be far from the case.


With the massive increase in people using email and text to communicate with each other you would think people would become used to realising what they say online is not just something that washes over people and be more sensitive to what they are writing
 arsenej13/11/2015 7:56:15 PM GMT
I dont know about internet bullying but in real life i would suggest Emimems approach to bullys and beat them over the head with a broom.


Brain damage - Eminem

[Doctor] Scalpel
[Nurse] Here
[Doctor] Sponge
[Nurse] Here
[Doctor] Wait.. he's convulsing, he's convulsing!
[Nurse] Ah!
[Doctor] We're gonna have to shock him!
[Nurse] Oh my! Oh my God!
[Doctor] We're gonna have to shock him!
[Nurse] Oh my God!

[Eminem]
These are the results of a thousand electric volts
A neck with bolts, "Nurse we're losin him, check the pulse!"
A kid who refused to respect adults
Wore spectacles with taped frames and a freckled nose
A corny lookin white boy, scrawny and always ornery
Cause I was always sick of brawny bullies pickin on me
And I might snap, one day just like that
I decided to strike back and flatten every tire on the bike rack
(Swooosh) My first day in junior high, this kid said,
"It's you and I, three o'clock sharp this afternoon you die"
I looked at my watch it was one twenty
"I already gave you my lunch money what more do you want from me?!?"
He said, "Don't try to run from me, you'll just make it worse..."
My palms were sweaty, and I started to shake at first
Something told me, "Try to fake a stomach ache it works"
I screamed, "Owww! My appendix feels like they could burst!
Teacher, teacher, quick I need a naked nurse!"
[teacher] "What's the matter?"
[Eminem] "I don't know, my leg, it hurts!"
[teacher] "Leg?! I thought you said it was your tummy?"
[Eminem] "Oh! I mean it is , but i also got a bum knee."
[Teacher] "Mr.mathers the fun n games are over.
And just for that stunt, you're gonna get some extra homework."
[Eminem] "But don't you wanna give me after school detention?"
[teacher] "Nah, that bully wants to beat your ass and ima let him."

Chorus: repeat 2X

Brain damage, ever since the day I was born
Drugs is what they used to say I was on
They say I never knew which way I was goin
But everywhere I go they keep playin my song

[Eminem]
Brain damage..
Way before my baby daughter Hailie
I was harassed daily by this fat kid named D'Angelo Bailey
An eighth grader who acted obnoxious, cause his father boxes
so everyday he'd shove me in the lockers
One day he came in the bathroom while I was pissin
And had me in the position to beat me into submission
He banged my head against the urinal til he broke my nose,
Soaked my clothes in blood, grabbed me and choked my throat
I tried to plead and tell him, "We shouldn't beef"
But he just wouldn't leave, he kept chokin me and I couldn't breathe
He looked at me and said, "You gonna die honkey!"
The principal walked in (What's going on in here?)
and started helpin him stomp me
I made them think they beat me to death
Holdin my breath for like five minutes before they finally left
Then I got up and ran to the janitor's storage booth
Kicked the door hinge loose and ripped out the four inch screws
Grabbed some sharp objects, brooms, and foreign tools
"This is for every time you took my orange juice,
or stole my seat in the lunchroom and drank my chocolate milk.
Every time you tipped my tray and it dropped and spilt.
I'm gettin you back bully! Now once and for good."
I cocked the broomstick back and swung hard as I could
and beat him over the head with it til I broke the wood
Knocked him down, stood on his chest with one foot..
.. Made it home, later that same day
Started reading a comic, and suddenly everything became gray
I couldn't even see what I was tryin to read
I went deaf, and my left ear started to bleed
My mother started screamin, "What are you on, drugs?!?
Look at you, you're gettin blood all over my rug!" (Sorry!)
She beat me over the head with the remote control
opened a hole, and my whole brain fell out of my skull
I picked it up and screamed, "Look bitch, what have you done?!?"
[Mother] "Oh my God, I'm sorry son"
[Eminem] "Shut up you cunt!" I said, "Fuck it!"
Took it and stuck it back up in my head
then I sewed it shut and put a couple of screws in my neck

Chorus

[Eminem]
Brain damage..
It's brain damage..
I got brain damage..
It's brain damage..
It's probably brain damage..
It's brain damage..
Brain damage..


 bowie19843/12/2015 2:05:51 PM GMT
Posted by IceQueenAce:
I totally disagree.
It only becomes a norm of society when people allow it to become normal.
All the time we stand against it, is not normal and something can be done about it.
People say things online in all forms, not just poker. And it isn't because they are looking for an advantage, it is because they are simply bullying.
They WOULDNT do it in real life because frankly, they would get a punch in the mouth for it. So they do it online where they can have a degree of anominity (sp?).
I would say they are anything but normal.

I did not say it has become the norm. I said the norms were always shifting.
Just because we now take bullying as a vicious and vile act, it doesn't mean ithis was always the case.
And of course they are doing it in real life, not everybody capable or even care for punching back.

We are totally speaking about a different thing while we are speaking about the same thing here.
 Openphase3/12/2015 3:31:31 PM GMT
Posted by Openphase:
Copy of email sent to BRM support:

"I posted my first forum comment in which I mention my age --62-- an eagle eyed 'Mobster' pointed out that my registration age was 59. I don't know if I made a typo --when registering-- or I subconsciously wished to be 50'ish instead of 60'ish Smile but I cannot find a way to make the correction. My accurate birth date is December 20, 1952. Can you correct please or direct me on correct method."

To StheP: Someday you'll be 62 and understand Confused

Damn I feel like I just got 'carded' oh yea... the (M) is correct I just checked.



Hey look I just turned --62-- ... again ... and my 'wedding tackle' is correctly classified. Thanks BRM support!
 heypotuk3/17/2015 4:44:42 PM GMT
Sad((((((

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