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oct
26

Phil Ivey Loses British Court Battle Over £7.7 Million Winnings From London Casino

Tags: Crockfords Casino, Edge Sorting, Phil Ivey, Punto Banco.
Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2017 by "T".

He's a force to reckon with when it comes to playing poker and other types of card games, but it looks like American poker pro Phil Ivey's good fortune did not work at Britain's Supreme Court - he lost a huge case this Wednesday (October 25) that rendered him unable from cashing in.

The British Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling that Phil Ivey had managed to employ illegitimate methods to acquire £7.7 million in winnings while at the baccarat table in 2012.

He and a companion were discovered to have utilized a technique called "edge sorting" in order to gain an unfair advantage whilst gambling at the Crockfords casino located in London's classy Mayfair district.

Even though they did not personally touch the cards being dealt, they asked the croupier to arrange the cards in a certain fashion that enabled them to determine, in some parts, which cards were being dealt, and that allowed them to bet accordingly in their favor.

Crockfords learned about this and refused to pay his winnings, prompting Ivey to bring the matter to court.

Supreme Court Judge Anthony Hughes stated the integrity of baccarat, Punto Banco, mainly depends on the cards being dealt at random without the gamblers (and even dealers themselves) knowing their face value. He said, "What Mr. Ivey did was to stage a carefully planned and executed sting." He also said that Ivey took "positive steps to fix the deck" by tricking the dealer. He concluded that "is inevitably cheating."

Ivey, who is considered to be one of the best players in international poker, said otherwise, stressing that his winnings were obtained in an honest manner. After the ruling, he said, "At the time I played at Crockfords, I believed that edge-sorting was a legitimate Advantage Play technique and I believe that more passionately than ever today."

Phil Ivey, who has won at multiple WSOP competitions and has reportedly won $16 million after playing for three straight days against Texan billionaire Andy Beal, remarked that he brought the case to Britain's highest court out of a sense of honor, "As a professional gambler, my integrity is everything to me."

The president of Genting Casinos UK (that operates Crockfords) said that the ruling ‘vindicates' the company's decision of refusing to pay Ivey his winnings from those baccarat sessions. He said, "We are delighted that the High Court, the Court of Appeal and now the Supreme Court have all found in Genting's favor, confirming that we acted fairly and properly at all times and that Mr. Ivey's conduct did indeed amount to cheating."

With this final decision, Phil Ivey has been branded a cheat by the UK court.

Now that this multi-million dollar lawsuit is all over, what do you think?

Source:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41751208

 


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28 comments for "Phil Ivey Loses British Court Battle Over £7.7 Million Winnings From London Casino"

 doubletop77710/26/2017 8:18:18 AM GMT
I really thought that Phil Ivey would win this lawsuit and i am pretty disappointed that he didn't. In my opinion, he just found an angle in and played the game accordingly and should have been paid his winnings
 pochui10/26/2017 11:51:50 AM GMT
well not a big surprise really, just another case where the small fish (player) loses against a shark (casino). in reality this was a huge mistake by the casino, or more precisely one of it's employees and not cheating by ivey... but reality is that house always wins, even when it loses.
 Gerimantas10/26/2017 7:32:51 PM GMT
Yes i tio think it is not good to see phil ivey to lose this situation, I think he didn't do anything wrong but just used his brain to see good situation for him and made very big money from this. Casino make mistake to allow players to use this mistake and so they must pay the money i think
 Mober10/26/2017 7:46:16 PM GMT
That actually can be considered as not to be news. The odds of winning this one was too low.
Maybe he had a feeling too Blink thats why he decided and announced his return,
playing poker next year.
Probably having a hard time in casinos, now...
 CALICUL10/26/2017 9:06:31 PM GMT
Once again the mafia who owns casinos win the process in court and the money will remain in their pocket. I consider that this case has been arranged. Phil Ivey he did not touch the cards this is how i understood it. All casinos search for methods to cheats some winners. Is not a singular case and the courts are friendly with the casinos...
 TheMachineQC10/27/2017 4:51:12 PM GMT
Posted by Mober:
That actually can be considered as not to be news. The odds of winning this one was too low.
Maybe he had a feeling too Blink thats why he decided and announced his return,
playing poker next year.
Probably having a hard time in casinos, now...


Well, I wouldn't want to be this casino's customer again. Not only you have to beat the 6% house edge, when you do they sue you and make sure you don't get a cent. Phil Ivey should stick to what he does best and that's poker. But still winning 7 M in a casino game and not getting anything for it is pretty crazy. He didn't even touch the cards so the casino should pay. You can't physically cheat if you don't touch the cards.
 pajalnick10/27/2017 7:43:35 PM GMT
I basically thought so .... apparently the casino is stronger than the players even if they are very famous ..... it is certainly very sad and I certainly understand that the syndicates are stronger than individual people .... this is one of the injustices of this world
 Mober10/27/2017 8:10:30 PM GMT
You think that the casino would want ivey as a customer either.
I really doubt about this.
Or that any any other casino, will let him play from now on, without someone observing
him and his friends closely.
And that was the reason why he wasnt playing poker probably. Cause that was a very easy way to
make money.
But now the story is know worldwide, he is back at poker, right? .....
 Gerimantas10/27/2017 8:50:51 PM GMT
Yes like some people say in this forum that it is not possible to cheat if you don't touch the cards- in think so too, what ivey do wrong? He asks casino guy to play to his liek and casino say ol we cczn play like you ask, and then they lose and do not want to pay ivey the money, I think this is stupid
 CALICUL10/27/2017 10:50:27 PM GMT
Posted by Gerimantas:
Yes like some people say in this forum that it is not possible to cheat if you don't touch the cards- in think so too, what ivey do wrong? He asks casino guy to play to his liek and casino say ol we cczn play like you ask, and then they lose and do not want to pay ivey the money, I think this is stupid


No man is not stupid at all. The casinos have the law in their hands it's normal for them. Corruption exists everywhere and if a man win big money they are looking for inventions for not to pay the money. Not in all situations, but there are plenty of cases when casinos found it a cheating and no pay. Phil Ivey need to pay 10 million $ for borgata casino with an identical situation. I do not trust in casinos. Where you have 4% chance of winning and if you get a big sum there is the possibility that you will not receive anything.
 Mober10/28/2017 8:12:31 PM GMT
I think this says everything for this particular case :

Supreme Court Judge Anthony Hughes stated the integrity of baccarat, Punto Banco, mainly depends on the cards being dealt at random without the gamblers (and even dealers themselves) knowing their face value. He said, "What Mr. Ivey did was to stage a carefully planned and executed sting." He also said that Ivey took "positive steps to fix the deck" by tricking the dealer. He concluded that "is inevitably cheating."
 damosk10/29/2017 6:39:16 AM GMT
This is a very interesting case the circumstances of which have caused some great consternation over the conflict between cheating and taking an advantage caused by an apparent failure, so it would seem. It would appear that the UK law courts took the view tha what went on was very naughty and determined the outcome accordingly!
 pochui10/29/2017 8:46:52 AM GMT
casino's just proved once again for all to see that it doesn't really matter if you find a loophole in their system you are still left with a donut hole to show for your effort. probably the only valid reason to play in a casino is to spend a good night with friends and play for only very low stakes.
 CALICUL10/29/2017 3:55:27 PM GMT
If i were a lover of slots and not only how are these players who love casinos i would make a strike of solidarity as a sign of respect for winners of large amounts that are denied payment of money because that is not normal and the credibility of the casino drops dramatically. Insane workers looking for reasons and not pay the money.
 Mober10/29/2017 9:05:34 PM GMT
I really doubt that the credibility of this casino dropped at all.
How many more players were about to do what phil ivey did, in that casino,
and not trusting it now, to give them the money won, using these methods? Smile

You think the rest of the players care about it at all?
 Serpang10/31/2017 2:33:24 PM GMT
Judge decision in British base on Jury, am I right ? Could judge make decision opposite with Jury ? If not, jury should be investigated . Maybe casino pay them. Anyway this case prove of British court isn't good.
Sad Sad. And why this case need too long to make final decision ?
 CALICUL10/31/2017 2:43:17 PM GMT
Posted by Mober:
I really doubt that the credibility of this casino dropped at all.
How many more players were about to do what phil ivey did, in that casino,
and not trusting it now, to give them the money won, using these methods? Smile

You think the rest of the players care about it at all?



Credibility does not decrease because some people have the game in the blood. I would not go to the casino for the rest of my life if i earn some money and those responsible refuses to pay my money. I did not understand very well what phil ivey did but I'm on his side. It does not matter that he lost the processes(than financially) but the casinos are dirty.
 Mober10/31/2017 9:29:44 PM GMT
Well you shouldnt go to the casino, if you had done everything by the book and then they
refused to pay you. Which is not the case of course, as we all know what has happened.

So who cares if he goes back or not at the end?
The casino doesnt care at all. And why they should?
 CALICUL11/2/2017 3:51:22 PM GMT
Posted by Mober:
Well you shouldnt go to the casino, if you had done everything by the book and then they
refused to pay you. Which is not the case of course, as we all know what has happened.

So who cares if he goes back or not at the end?
The casino doesnt care at all. And why they should?


The casino does not care because there are enough players who are not up to date with the news, they do not have the IQ higher with few percents, they do not really care or many other things which make them come back every time. In this way the casino goes on profit and they are satisfied and phil ivey remain with pain in the soul.
 Ingrind3311/2/2017 10:47:44 PM GMT
Ten million dollars is a lot. You always have to wonder when a poker pro plays a lot of gambling games, pros can do that for fun, but when they do it stretched over a long time , then any casino needs to be suspicious, not just because they are famous or something, but because they are poker pros and know about odds, so I think anyone's alarm bell starts ringing i guess. I don't really care about the casinos loss, but scamming is scamming. Can he be trusted at poker?
 Mober11/4/2017 10:11:08 PM GMT
And that wasnt the first court he lost about the specific case of course.
And he still finds what he did legitimate according to the article.

Which casino is going to accept him as a baccarat player again?
Even if they do, they will make sure to watch for all of his tricks.
In other words he wont have the so called advantage, so why choosing to play again right? Smile
 pajalnick11/4/2017 10:33:36 PM GMT
I was sure that he would lose this court ..... of course a small chance he had but he was so small that probably it was not worth spending money on lawyers if many people knew that it was simply impossible to fight corporations ..... especially if several ships had been lost before
 dule-vu11/5/2017 12:01:54 PM GMT
this is very big amount and its now for 5 years and they now want to have judgment!it alaways problem when somebody want to take big amount from casino,they find some way to say that they had problem with machines and that somebody cheated!
 CALICUL11/5/2017 7:04:08 PM GMT
This man has lost a lot of money with this two casinos London Casino and Borgata. These many millions of dollars can weigh a lot in his career. I hope Phil Ivey not to be affected with his games and continue to play professional poker. Is a good player and can easily forget this period of his life.
 pochui11/6/2017 9:09:49 AM GMT
I kinda was rooting for him, not that I care a lot about his career or support him, but I would like to see casinos getting a kick in their arses and being forced to pay for their own mistakes, because this is just another of those scenarios where casino has screwed themselves, still they get away unhurt financially.
 dule-vu11/6/2017 12:41:58 PM GMT
he can easy earn this amount on few high stakes poker tournaments with rich people in asia,but problem is in casino,because when somebody take money from them,they want to find way to pay them and they will try to spend years and years on this!
 Gerimantas11/6/2017 7:31:00 PM GMT
Yes I think too like some people say ih this forum post that phil ibey is bery good poker player and he can win more money from rich guys playing high stakes poker in asia or other place and this decision from court is not so dramatic to hom, of course big money, but he can earn more in poker
 CALICUL11/6/2017 8:20:59 PM GMT
Posted by Gerimantas:
Yes I think too like some people say ih this forum post that phil ibey is bery good poker player and he can win more money from rich guys playing high stakes poker in asia or other place and this decision from court is not so dramatic to hom, of course big money, but he can earn more in poker


Gerimantas you are right. Phil Ivey is a great player, a professional and of course he will try to forget this episod of his life even if the amount of money is huge. Now he will try to play to recover from other games but needs huge stakes games. Ivey need to return in asia to recover this money.

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