Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I was just reading this article written by one of the full tilt pros; a guy called Nick Schulman. You know those articles that have links in the full tilt promo emails. I usually have a read if they look interesting and there's usually good advice but I couldn't disagree more with this article.
It's not the general message i disagree with. I think there are times where you need to call. The thread on here with the pocket tens gives a good example of when you shouldn't raise preflop as it can only lead to trouble.
If you didn't read the article this guy has pocket 9s on the button. He raises and gets reraised by the small blind by about one and a half times the pot. He then says 'I obviously wasn't going to fold.' and goes about explaining why he doesn't re-raise. Imo a fold is an option here but the best move by far is to call. There is no way I would consider a raise.
The flop comes with one over card which is Q. The guy bets two thirds of the pot and now here is where i completely disagree with the writer. He calls arguing that his opponent is loose. I can't think of a worse response. You could fold here and except it but what I think has to be done is to raise to test the waters. If he has just over cards he will fold and you take the pot before anymore scare cards. If he has a monster hand, he will raise and you can fold knowing that you were beaten. He already admitted he put his opponent on AJ.
By just calling he risked having to call more bets on the turn and river and all the time his hand is more likely to get worse than improve. They both check it down and the guy shows AK. But he could have won it much sooner. He gave his opponent opportunities to take the hand through bluffing and by hitting cards.
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1353
He was floating. It isn't a bad choice et all. Your opponent can think that you are slowplaying a monster or if he checks turn or river it's giving you a sing of weak.
To do a better decision is good to have the player's stats. so you can have and idea how many time he will do a Cbet or 2nd barrel.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 735
Looking back at the hand, I think I was right to just check or call all the way. Pre-flop, who knows, if I’d re-raised, anything could have happened, including him shoving all in and me having to fold. On the flop, a raise probably would have worked, but that’s a really risky play. If I had bet the turn, that could have been disastrous. He had me covered, he’s shown himself to be an aggressive player, and he had the nut flush draw plus a gut-shot and two over-cards. There’s a very good chance he would have check-raised all in, which would have been an excellent play. I would’ve had to fold the best hand if he’d done that.
Reading this last bit, I must agree with him, A or K on the turn or river would have given him a reason to fold on any bet, but in this situation he gave himself a chance to win the pot without risking more money
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 2194
I read this and i'm not convinced at all... I belive it really depends on what level you are playing at.... Low limits you will get called to the death. some tables i have played you get called raised and pushed against with crap all the way. If you are good / fortunant enougth to play at a higher stake where players are better and actualy play the game and dont just gamble you can do this sort of thing. Getting shot of the gamblers would make the game a little boring.. and less profitable...lol
I probably would of called and checked it all the way too. You have to keep in consideration the guy could of ben waiting to check raise. Yes with 99 that Q is a scare card, but it looks like he had his opp nailed so he knew that he would bluff at it.
Joined: Oct '07
Location: Germany
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 135
why are you comittet to the hand/pot if you raise? just fold if you cant beat the highest card? i let easily go of KK when an ace comes up.. why to bother and risk money? just raise one on the flop if he calls give up the hand or hope he also checking down then you can try again to steal with a SMALL bet! if he would fold on a big bet he also folds on a small one if he holds a draw.. there are so many situations and possible situations out there you could allways discusst this kind of things.. just be patient and the nuts will come..
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Looks like mine is not the majority opinion. But I am still not convinced this was played right. I think you're all judging this hand in hindsight as he did. Yes it all worked out for him and he got the money without risking more. Things could of gone different if he'd bet and he could have lost.
But if you think of all the possibilities to come after the flop, it would have been a much better choice to raise. His opp could have had AJ or KJ, in which case he just gave him the lead. His opp could have stuck in a second bet on the turn and he pretty much has to fold all the time unless the turn was a 9. If the turn was an ace or king there would have been further complications. What if his opp had bet the turn with his flush draw. He can't know if his opponent has AQ, JJ or a flush draw/made flush cos he didn't get any information just by calling the flop.
He was fortunate imo that his opp checked it down. If his opp sensed weakness he could of stolen it easily on the turn or river.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by awood88: He was fortunate imo that his opp checked it down. If his opp sensed weakness he could of stolen it easily on the turn or river.
Yep. After a second barrel at the turn the hand would be difficult to play. But if you got repopped on the flop, by an opponent who knows what is going on, you have to fold too.
With such a weakish hand it is best not to build a huge pot.
