It would be nice to discuss, when and why you use 3BB or 4BB as the standard raise preflop. I talk about $1-$5 SnG (also DoN's) For me, in the very most cases i use 3BB. First to become unreadable, which is my start hand and the loss of chips is less if i get an All-In as the answer
I play DoN's very passively. At the beginning its just fold, fold, fold for me, no matter what I have. DoN's are not about playing, no, Its all about SURVIVING and making it ITM. That should be the goal! I'm not playing it for too long, though, but my winning percentage is over 85% with 95 games played so far. My average of hands played during a DoN is 2-5, sometimes I don't play at all, or just one hand. If you play more than 5 hands average, then you do something wrong and your ROI is probably not that big. When it comes to being shortstacked and I have to play for SURVIVING, then I play it very agressive, with the first decent hand I get. Its a pot bet always (I play PLO), but at NL I woulda shove allin, I guess. At this stage of DoN's the BB is mostly 1/3 or even 2/3 of my stake, so its the only right move there. Even if you just get the blinds, it gives you a few more minutes to survive, so anyone of the donk will mostly like bust before you did and its GG.
This is mainly for PLO Turbo DoN's, since thats the only thing they offer for me at Mansion , but it should be very similiar for NL, too. Doomdy, correct me please, if I'm wrong...
Edit: I didn't mentioned anything about 3BB or 4BB for DoN's, because I think such a regular play doesn't fit in it. (for PLO at least not, for NL I'm not sure) And SNG I dont play at all.
Edited by DaneMitic (29 September 2009 @ 13:52 GMT)
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Depends on the table. 3BB, 3,5BB or 4BB. All possible options. In later stages of a Tourney/SnG even 2,5BB may be good enough. If opponents fold enough after a 3BB raise, stay at 3BB. If they call to light, raise more.
like shokaku says it always depends on the table so u just have to find the right amount to get them to fold in a don everyone wants to survive and make the money take advantage of it
It also depands on position f.e. at the first level I raise 4.5BB from the early 4BB from middle and 3.5BB from late. As the blinds grows up, my bets ar lower and lower. At bubble f.e. I raise 3BB early 2.75BB middle 2.5BB late
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Posted by PietroMC: It also depands on position f.e. at the first level I raise 4.5BB from the early 4BB from middle and 3.5BB from late. As the blinds grows up, my bets ar lower and lower. At bubble f.e. I raise 3BB early 2.75BB middle 2.5BB late
I do the same. When bilnds are getting high yo should try to open your steal range and reasi between 2,5 - 3 BB, so if someone shove all-in you will be able to fold without problems and keep triying.
If 2 2,5 BB steals works, although you fail one it's a +EV move
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Posted by DaneMitic: I play DoN's very passively. At the beginning its just fold, fold, fold for me, no matter what I have. DoN's are not about playing, no, Its all about SURVIVING and making it ITM. That should be the goal! I'm not playing it for too long, though, but my winning percentage is over 85% with 95 games played so far. My average of hands played during a DoN is 2-5, sometimes I don't play at all, or just one hand. If you play more than 5 hands average, then you do something wrong and your ROI is probably not that big. When it comes to being shortstacked and I have to play for SURVIVING, then I play it very agressive, with the first decent hand I get. Its a pot bet always (I play PLO), but at NL I woulda shove allin, I guess. At this stage of DoN's the BB is mostly 1/3 or even 2/3 of my stake, so its the only right move there. Even if you just get the blinds, it gives you a few more minutes to survive, so anyone of the donk will mostly like bust before you did and its GG.
This is mainly for PLO Turbo DoN's, since thats the only thing they offer for me at Mansion , but it should be very similiar for NL, too. Doomdy, correct me please, if I'm wrong...
Well i am not a DoN specialist so dont know all But 1 thing a PL omaha DoN is different then a NL Holdem DoN, in a Holdem NL DoN u have to play more hands then omaha. Omaha DoNs are easy money, most players dont have a clue wot they are doin, so playin very very tight is best, Holdem DoNs u have to play hands at some point else u bleed to death
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doomdy..ive never played pl omaha..u sayin in most cases there beginners? i play for the money lol would love to getta nice size br to bring to the tables lookin for the easiest way!
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PLO DoN's on PKR are very easy. The first 5 knocked out are the one's overplaying QQxx, KKxx and AAxx, very simple PLO play wins this game 99% of the time. However, just try and play more than 1 at a time and see how far you get. The traffic on them is very low, they're posibbly busier on iP and PS but I've not tried them before!
------------ oh and 3BB, judge what is happening at the table whilst your folding 99% of your hands though and work out who you can pull what moves on and who you can't when it comes to bubble time. 3xbb is fine in these games, so is a push late on imo.
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omg someone could have told me...
back to the kiddies area i go
Ok on a seriuos note, 3BB betting seems to have little or no respect nowadays, ok so you lose a few hands (trash) by making this bet but the likes of Axx are mor than likely going to call OR the PP will re pop at this stage unless they are feeling trappy, check/raise.
to me im 4BB anything TT + pre with a view of taking it down on the flop unless i fewll i can slow roll the table with my hand,
AQ AK im calling a 3BB pre flop with these hands obv re popping any PP i may have above TT might even call 88/99 to a 3BB to see a flop depends on position,
im normally 4BB from the button for a steal (usually works)
hope thats answered your questions...............
OH AND STILL I CLAIM SHIP IT ALL IN PRE WIT ANY TWO
Joined: Nov '08
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Mainly for tourney play:
I used to raise varying amounts depending upon position, table image, and general mood, regardless of cards. This can be as confusing as ALWAYS making a std raise. But now I generally 4XBB early, and lesser, as mentioned, the deeper you get. Oh yeah plus 1BB for each limper, which is a cash game type of deal, but works well for tourneys, and seems to keep limping down whilst one is left to act. At least imo...
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Posted by shokaku: Depends on the table. 3BB, 3,5BB or 4BB. All possible options. In later stages of a Tourney/SnG even 2,5BB may be good enough. If opponents fold enough after a 3BB raise, stay at 3BB. If they call to light, raise more.
This could also be an arguement to raise less so it's easier to get away from the hand. If people call you light I rather tighten up my raise range than changing the size of my raise. Just my opinion I know we all see it different.
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Posted by M3turbo: This could also be an arguement to raise less so it's easier to get away from the hand. If people call you light I rather tighten up my raise range than changing the size of my raise. Just my opinion I know we all see it different.
Tighten up does not help here. If you raise with your top hands and half the table calls, you are in trouble.
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Posted by shokaku:
Posted by M3turbo: This could also be an arguement to raise less so it's easier to get away from the hand. If people call you light I rather tighten up my raise range than changing the size of my raise. Just my opinion I know we all see it different.
Tighten up does not help here. If you raise with your top hands and half the table calls, you are in trouble.
If half the table calls I rather sit with a strong hand than raising a medium hand more.
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Posted by M3turbo: If half the table calls I rather sit with a strong hand than raising a medium hand more.
No.
If half the table calls, i want to have a hand with potential to the nuts. Suited aces or SC are much easier to play there. With a high pair you end up outdrawn to often in those situations.
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I dont think raising 3 or 4 BB changes alot in how many callers you get....I more think it's a way of saving money when you know there is a big chance of being 3bet.
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Posted by shokaku:
Posted by M3turbo: If half the table calls I rather sit with a strong hand than raising a medium hand more.
No.
If half the table calls, i want to have a hand with potential to the nuts. Suited aces or SC are much easier to play there. With a high pair you end up outdrawn to often in those situations.
YES I WANT....dont tell me what I want
Easier but not more profitable....it's not ment to be easy
Btw you said high pair I said tighter raise range.
, but it should be very similiar for NL, too. Doomdy, correct me please, if I'm wrong... 
