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Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1353
That is the question. I received a couple of insults from the guy I eliminated and Congrats from the other players tables but I still have the doubt if it was a donk call or not.
So what do you think?
PD: I didn't have player reads. Just the pattern of his bets on the hand.
PokerStars Game #34809579826: Tournament #203362919 (100/200) - 2009/11/01 22:03:40 ET
Seat 1: eko_watt (1526 in chips) Seat 2: lordlink7 (3260 in chips) Seat 3: 002$.pello.$ (2605 in chips) Seat 4: r0g3rish0 (5922 in chips) Seat 5: PlexoChi (5290 in chips) Seat 6: Felipe Ghigg (19525 in chips) Seat 7: afuvi (4716 in chips) Seat 8: carlost425 (2274 in chips) Seat 9: chuche09 (5569 in chips) 002$.pello.$: posts small blind 100 r0g3rish0: posts big blind 200
*** TURN *** [Jd Th 6s] r0g3rish0: bets 3322 and is all-in PlexoChi: calls 2690 and is all-in Uncalled bet (632) returned to r0g3rish0
*** RIVER *** [Jd Th 6s Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN *** r0g3rish0: shows [8h 8c] (two pair, Jacks and Eights) PlexoChi: shows [9d 9c] (two pair, Jacks and Nines) PlexoChi collected 10680 from pot
Joined: Aug '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 79
In some ways can be seen as both, i would be worried about the check min raise but then the turn shove may make it look like KQ also the Jack on turn is a good card for you so makes it look even more like a draw too, Good call imo
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 703
Not a good call for sure but also don t think it was bad. The other one was a donk cuz apparently he would go allin with anything so i think it s difficult to make a choice
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Singapore
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 225
]Posted by Lutenatik: Not a good call for sure but also don t think it was bad. The other one was a donk cuz apparently he .would go allin with anything so i think it s difficult to make a choice
well yea not good, could have turn out worst.. 9 pair not relative big though, all in is pretty much pushing the luck.. imagine he have T and enuf to kill
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
It is hard to say but there is some bad play from both here. Raise utg is ok, you don't want a bb to see a free flop and also limping is likely to look weak and get raised. I'm not sure if I like the flop bet as he could have called with a wide range of cards to protect his blind, which is something a lot of ppl do even if it is bad play. His check-raise is terrible play here for 88. But I don't think you should call here. There ain't many cards that improve your hand and if he's on a draw your giving him chances to hit his outs. So I think you need to fold or make a move on the flop. You have less chips than the pot so with fold equity and potential outs I think this warrants an all in. After making the call, the turn is horrible as he could now be pushing A10 but with an 8000 pot and two and a half thousand left I think it's okay to take a gamble considering the s**t you've already got yourself into. When you made a pot size bet on the flop you were almost committing yourself.
So yes it was bad play but no worse than the villain who's trying to justify his own play by critcising yours. The call all-in was not really a donk call though imo as folding at this stage would almost be worse.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
i think it was a bad call from you if you had no player reads irrespective of the bet patterns, you just got lucky that he had a lower pocket pair and you won. be careful next time
Bad play from both ends IMO. Raising UTG with 99's is probably my prefered route of action, with 9's & tens i like to raise it up just a little bit extra than usual so only the good hands are in against me & if more than 1 overcard flops then i can let it go if i face a 3 bet/call to my cbet, most of the time anyways, unless i sense my opponent being weak. His play with the 88's was pretty weak in all respects. Moving all in with 2 overcards on board & facing a prf raiser doesnt make much sense to me esp since the pot odds hes giving you mean you must call. But I do think the whole line taken on the hand is questionable; You made a big cbet, he raised & you called, which means you basically priced yourself to call his all in on the next street, since over 3-1 on your money is just too good to fold. Played badly but got very lucky.
Joined: Jan '09
Location: New Zealand
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 463
Unless you have a read on the particular player, its otherwise a bad call. Against an unknown, there are just so many hands that can beat yours. IMO you just got lucky in that hand, otherwise you would have lost the pot. I'd probably raise higher UTG wit 99s though, and fold to his shove. :s
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Depends a lot on the history between you and the other player and the dynamics at the table. The J and the T are not the most dangerous overcards, but from the button he can easily have one of those.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Honeslty, I think you played right. All his bets looked like they wanted you to fold not call. I think he thought he was behind and wanted you off the hand, especially the final shove. Tough spot - but without seeing your other hands and knowing if you are just a donk or you can actually read people well, I'd have to say good call.
Being able to step above ABC grinders poker and actually being able to get a read (online) to call weak hands to catch retards is a skill worth having IMO.
Verdict: Great call
however: If villians line was different and you made same call to what appear to be a strong opponent I'd say should have been easy fold. But ultimately I think villian appeared super weak. I would have just about put him on AK or AQ betting air. Certainly would NOT have put him on a J or set. I'd have put him on 10 A/K at best. I would have been unhappy about the call, but would not be pushed off the hand by retard bets.
Don't know exactly because depends on the moment of tournament you were in. To be clear,wouldn't have done. But if you are in final phases of tournament, already ITM, and are trying to win, this call could have a sense. It's a dengerous call ( oppo all in with JJ on table it's an easy fold ) but if you studied him, if he was a loose player going all in frequently, it can be called. I repeat: wouldn't have called
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
mmmm, dificult to make a choice.
I dont like the raise preflop in utg, 99 not strong enough. Post flop 1000 chips to see turn with the third pair... you know the other player? if not its a big fold. But in anyway you win the hand, congrats!!
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Just both of you on the play, you were the first to bet, showing you were strong, and he believed you and went after the pot. You always showed you were strong and aces, kings and queens (the worst it can appear when you have a hand like yours) never came up to the table, so your possibilities were good. Once you were similar in chips, i think he thought you would never run the risk of going out of the tourney, but the truth is that you did and, in my opinion, very good!
Joined: Nov '09
Location: United States
Age: 37 (F)
Posts: 38
I have not idea how I would've reacted to that. Probably folded since that seems sufficient with pkt 9s. Don't beat yourself up, you never know how the cards will fall!
