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Win in the long runnnn !

     
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Posted by ih8usukouts:
I see your frustration while playing at these limits. You got every A-hole on the planet that thinks Ax is a good hand no matter what position they are in. You give them an A- suited with anything and they think they have the "nuts" pf and won't fold even if you make the pf pot odds to call insane. People say it's easy to grind your way out of the micros, but it's plays like this that keep you from growing (sometimes can even set you back). Unfortunately it happens on every site. If you want action, just play at these stakes. Just be glad the guy didn't call you J2, J3, etc. (you get the point) and suckout out for the win.


^True to some extent NL2 & NL4 are pretty stressful levels to play, but i can tell you they defintley are the most beatable, even though its those levels where I experienced the most frequency of bad beats, but if you practice proper BRM & play solid poker & stop stacking off with TPTK when your usually passive opponent is showing ALOT of strength, then you WILL beat them, guarenteed. Your greatest profits are going to be against those same ppl who hate folding, charge them heavy for any draw their on! They will pay & most of the time they'll lose more half their stack when their gutshot doesn't hit but when it does, don't worry about, you played +EV, he didn't, your profiting in the long run & he's not. NL10 is easily beatable & so is NL25, key words.... value bet, value bet, value bet.

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losing with AA happends to all of us and nobody likes it ! just keep in mind that when you play the micro cash tables it happends more oftend and better than to play the lotto or the freerolls if you can't get yourself over such beats .

     
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Why always the card come on the river.....I would prefer if it appered on the flop Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
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Posted by M3turbo:
Now I see both fcumred and photolong say AA is not favourite to win multiway.....so please tell me which starting hand is better than AA Aww crap! Aww crap!

Come on guys Shock



You completely miss the point.

AA versus ANY other hand is a favourite to win.

However up against TWO hands it then becomes harder to win because there is more chance one of them will hit what they need to beat your AA.,

The more people in the pot, the less likely it is that AA will win.

Try this for fun

Deal 10 hands. Make sure one of them is AA.

Then deal a flop, turn and river leaving all hands as if they were all in.

How often will AA win do you think ? If you think it will win more than it loses then try again...

because believe me, if all 10 players go all in pre flop and one player has AA the odds are about 10% in his favour that he will be the winner by the time the river hits.. ie he will only win about 1 in 10 of them... Thats why you always want AA HU as opposed to a multiple pot

Edited by fcumred (23 November 2009 @ 01:28 GMT)


     
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@fcumred

I did not miss the point but perhaps you did Confused



AA Preflop:

AA is favourite against any other hand preflop.

AA's win % decreases the more players there are in the hand.

AA will always be the best starting hand no matter how many players there are in the hand.
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As you suggested 10 people go All-in preflop 10 times im Hero(ofcourse Tongue) you are villain.

We can choose our starting hand.

I choose AA(double suited Tongue) all 10 times Big Smile

Which hand do you choose?

Seat 1: Hero with AA
Seat 2: Villain with ?
Seat 3:
Seat 4:
Seat 5:
Seat 6:
Seat 7:
Seat 8:
Seat 9:
Seat 10:

     
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Quick equity calculation in pokerstove, just picked a couple of random cards of the top of my head

AA - 60%
Ts9s - 18%
QhJs - 10%
AdKd - 12%

Interesting that T9s has the most equity in the pot after AA... quite suprising, but also backs why you want to be playing suited connectors multiway... interesting


Thumbs Up

     
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wow he made his flush brutal i mean KK and AA wow that it pretty cool

     
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Posted by doomdy:
Posted by M3turbo:
Equity example:

You play NL50, you get AA vs KK all in preflop.

You got 80% chance of winning.

Pot is $100.

AA hold up and you win $100.

You won 100%($100) but only had 80% equity in the pot.

So you won $20 you didn't deserve.

The extra $20 you win every time you win AA vs KK will be taken from you the times KK spikes and sucks you out cause you only had 80% equity in the pot but won 100%. If you want to win 100% when you only got 80% you should win first time and never do it again.

Point being if you keep putting money in spots where you got 80% equity, in the end you will have 80% of the money.

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More focus on your decisions, less focus on results as you can't control how the cards fall.


+1 off the week.

Great post/logic. Thumbs Up
Did you read D. Sklanskys book? Tongue

     
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Posted by doomdy:
Posted by M3turbo:
Equity example:

You play NL50, you get AA vs KK all in preflop.

You got 80% chance of winning.

Pot is $100.

AA hold up and you win $100.

You won 100%($100) but only had 80% equity in the pot.

So you won $20 you didn't deserve.

The extra $20 you win every time you win AA vs KK will be taken from you the times KK spikes and sucks you out cause you only had 80% equity in the pot but won 100%. If you want to win 100% when you only got 80% you should win first time and never do it again.

Point being if you keep putting money in spots where you got 80% equity, in the end you will have 80% of the money.

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More focus on your decisions, less focus on results as you can't control how the cards fall.


+1 off the week.

Thumbs Up from me as well... great post M3!!

The less technical summary of this is that BigBetPoker has a LOT of fish... they WILL suck out on you... but...as some of my learned friends above point out..in the long run, if you're playing good poker, you will win and they will lose.

Don't let the beats get you down and let the fish go on tilt!

Cheers,
John

     
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No, think what fcumred is saying is that there are 3 ppl in that hand not 2.
So Heros odds would go to around 60% thas AA Vs KK Vs random close to flipping.
(obv I know in this case we know now its 3ppl in pot and normally would expect HU)

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Posted by BigBetPoker:
The less technical summary of this is that BigBetPoker has a LOT of fish... they WILL suck out on you... but...as some of my learned friends above point out..in the long run, if you're playing good poker, you will win and they will lose.

Only true for higher limits were PPL do fold, if most pots go to showdown your odds of winning with the better starting hand is actually the same odds of comeing from behind to win.
Thats the problem.
In outher words either get them to fold, dont play them or keep pots small aginst the none-folders.

Edited by B1gfoot (23 November 2009 @ 15:34 GMT)


     
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Hi!!

The weekend is fishy-time!!!! There are lots of them in the tables, making call like that... Well, you had bad luck, no matter, beat them another time.

Bye and aces for all!!

     
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well might have found a solution to my problem how to adapt my play to the way they play on this site .... sit on a six seater table not the 10 seater table .... still fishy but less per table.....still getting calls to my big raises but only one caller at a time so actually came off a table in profit ........ try a few sessions and report back if not going to stick to stt as im doing ok in them ...... when im not loosing my profits back on the cash tables ...........

     
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[QUOTE]Posted by B1gfoot:
No, think what fcumred is saying is that there are 3 ppl in that hand not 2.
So Heros odds would go to around 60% thas AA Vs KK Vs random close to flipping.
(obv I know in this case we know now its 3ppl in pot and normally would expect HU)

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[QUOTE]

Yes our winning chance drops 20% but the pot increases by 50%. So we got ~60%+ equity in a spot where we need 33% to make the call, that's pretty nice imo.

Calling a 60%+ win situation a flip is a bit too pessimistic for my taste.


@doomdy, BBP John and DaneMitic.

I see 3 Thumbs Up but 0 in post, haha doesn't matter Im just glad you liked the post, sadly I believe you guys had the correct understanding of equity in advance. So I probably missed my target group Smile

@Danemitic

No I haven't read David Sklansky books but I got them all Tongue One day oh one day I will read them all Smile

     
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sounds like an every day normal suck-out goes like that on every site and every kind of tables

     
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i think we all understand what your point of view is but i guess that we are a bit tired of hearing that someone has being beaten with AA because we all have had the same problems and still have this problem and we did and do not make such a issue out of it .

     
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Calling 2 preflop pushes with A-2 suited is absolutely a Donk move. A lot of people will make that call besause of any number of factors such as:
1.Think that the bluff is on and refuse to be bluffed out of a pot.
2.Are gamblers and believe in luck vs skill
3. Figures that the equity in the pot in great enough to take a chance
4. Are on tilt.
5. Will defend his blind with anything.
6. Are LAG's.
7. Possibly slightly retarded.
These are only a small number of possible expanations as to why that guy called that hand,but again, over the long term u WILL turn a profit with your Aces in that situation.

     
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Posted by psycokiller:

7. Possibly slightly retarded.




Worship

     
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8- they always win

Aww crap!

     
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BankrollMob Forum » Big Bet Poker » Fish are winning Part 2

 
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