Which Player would you say deserves the most praise
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On my poker forum, we've been discussing what makes a player succesful.
I'll give a list of different successes people have had, some big, some small, and I'd like you to tell me what you feel is the most worthwhile achievement.
1) Player enters a freeroll competition on Pokerstars. He qualifies for the final giving him a chance to win a £5k seat in the EPT in London. He duly wins it and gets the seat in the EPT. Not only does enter, he manages to finish 15th and earns himself a cool $32k in the process..
2) A player plays regularly on a poker site, and has failed to gain much of a bankroll. He tries another site, recommended by the forum and enters a freeroll tournament we run. he wins it, and gets $2. Within 12 weeks he's built that $2 up to $350 and is consistently grinding onwards and upwards.
3) Player C enters the Daily dollar for the first time, and manages to finish in 5th place earning himself $350 for his efforts. Three days later he does exactly the same thing, final tables the Daily Dollar on Full Tilt and again finishes 5th for $350. Over the next six weels he final tables the Daily Dollar a further 3 times, each time winning over $200.
4) Player D has been trying for 3 years to get a bankroll. Whenever he gets about $2 he blows it on the first MTT or SNG he can afford, and never gets anywhere. The general consensus is he's a bit of a donkey. However he gets a $10 no deposit bonus. He asks for advice, and is told about Bankroll management, and he goes off to read up on it. He then follows good BRM and over a period of time starts to build up a nice bankroll. He then comes back to the forum 6 weeks later telling us how well hes done. He's now built up a $120 bankroll from his $10 bonus, and is constantly playing at the correct limits to minimise his losses. Simply a case of bad player come good...
Who in your opinion deserves the most recognition, and why....
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Good poll
Anyway........ Think 2 or 3 imo.... option 1 is just luck for that time. 4 is just a rookie need to prove more. So i wud pick 2 or 3. Guess 3 is best achievement imo, final tabling so many times is really great.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I say player C, thats hard for anyone to do, PA himself would struggle to keep that up. Once is lucky, 2 times could be very lucky but final table 5 in 44 final tables with 3-10K mine fields (guessing No, dont play them). Id say he has a natural talent for the game. Player B is on a rocket they tend to explode. Player A has had sucess for sure but would have to play more to see if he is going to be succesful. PLayer D is Pokers Joe blogs and with bankrollmanagment and good play (the key, no point in BRM if you play s**t) he should be succesful. But Id give more praise to player C.
Anyway........ Think 2 or 3 imo.... option 1 is just luck for that time. 4 is just a rookie need to prove more. So i wud pick 2 or 3. Guess 3 is best achievement imo, final tabling so many times is really great.
But you could argue that to get to the EPT he had to qualify for the final on Pokerstars which involved coming in the top 10% of the qualifier. He then enters the final and beats over 1000 people to get to the EPT main event in London.
Then when hes there he has to play some of the best players in the world. On his table he had Peter Eastgate, Vicky Coren and Annette Obrestad, and still managed to cash for $32k. And were it not for a monumental brain fart when he shoved all in against the big stack on the table with pocket 3s and loses to pocket J, he would have final tabled the game.
I am merely playing devils advocate here, because I can see merit in all these cases.
( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Tell please
Shh but he is Annette Obrestad.
whispers : dont tell anyone, but it was me that final tabled the Daily Dollar five times.
------------
Posted by B1gfoot:
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Tell please
Shh but he is Annette Obrestad.
cant I be Vicky Coren..
I have this dream about getting into her underwear....
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by fcumred:
Posted by B1gfoot:
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Tell please
Shh but he is Annette Obrestad.
whispers : dont tell anyone, but it was me that final tabled the Daily Dollar five times.
Posted by fcumred: [QUOTE]Posted by doomdy: ( and I have to be careful because one of those players listed there is myself, but I cant tell you which one it is )
Tell please
Shh but he is Annette Obrestad.
whispers : dont tell anyone, but it was me that final tabled the Daily Dollar five times.
No way Outoff ho many times?
After i got the first final table, I played it every night. It was only after I final tabled for the 5th time and cashed out that I stopped playing it for a while on Tilt as I was going through the curse of the cashout ( you know when they punish you for taking your money out ), and then when I tried again I couldnt get anywhere... In fact I think I've only cashed about 5 times since.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by fcumred: After i got the first final table, I played it every night. It was only after I final tabled for the 5th time and cashed out that I stopped playing it for a while on Tilt as I was going through the curse of the cashout ( you know when they punish you for taking your money out ), and then when I tried again I couldnt get anywhere... In fact I think I've only cashed about 5 times since.
Posted by fcumred: After i got the first final table, I played it every night. It was only after I final tabled for the 5th time and cashed out that I stopped playing it for a while on Tilt as I was going through the curse of the cashout ( you know when they punish you for taking your money out ), and then when I tried again I couldnt get anywhere... In fact I think I've only cashed about 5 times since.
Well still a great Job, Well Done
It did also involve some of hte most outrageous luck you can ever imagine.
In one I picked up 77 on the BB. The table big stack on the Button raises, so I thought he was trying a steal, so I called him. The flop came A 7 rag...
he c-bets, I re-raise he shoves.
Absollutely sure I have him crushed, I make the call.
Imagine my horror when he turns over Pocket aces...
OH OH out I go..
Nope.. Not at all. I hit the case 7 on the river and take the pot...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 401
A player who builds a solid bankroll from nothing deserves a lot of credit. But he would only deserves all those praises after starting from 0 and beating all micro-limits and keep being a solid player on low/mid stakes.
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Argentina
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 748
I am going for either 2 or 3. 4 is ok, but it is only halfway related to the others. 1 is a shot in the dark getting into the EPT, the sensible thing to do would have been selling his seat (he probably would be +EV to do so, although he did get lucky). My vote went for 3, it seems pretty hard to final table 3 times in those tourneys...
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 735
Nice poll! Bloody hard to make up my mind at first; For all players its a nice peak in their poker-carreer, but there isn't the slitest garantee they are actual good players yet. I voted for #1 because, unless he is a complete moron, it would take him the longest to blow his entire roll on varience and real bad luckl
First of all, Fucumred, let me applaude you for the very interesting way you have created this poll. I9t's a nice piece of work and makes one think about things, something which we mostly do too very little. So THANKS for making ME think about this !
As for the answer, I was having trouble between options 2, 3 and 4.
The first one was an easy elimination. It shows some high level of skill probably, but it is in essence a one shot accomplishment in my eyes.
The other 3 all have one thing in common : these players all showed a high degree of consistency, of patience and of willpower to make things happen. They all deserve the vote, but since I can only vote for one, then I'm choosing the 4th one.
There's one thing that is specifically distinguising between that player and the others, and that is the express will to LEARN, even if that means sticking to a "dull" scheme of playing micro limits for a long while and very gradually building. The others all do that too, but the last one (well, there you mention it, you don't mention it with the others) expressly makes a turnaround in the way he looks at the game and starts learning; And THAT is something a massive percentage of the players online never think they need. Most of them just play along, going whatever way seems best for them at that particular moment.
I'm sure that, if the last one has started by learning about BRM, he will undoubtedly start reading up on other things and perfecting himself further, since his first learning experience has proven to pay off.
So I think HE deserves most respect and recognition.
( Geez, I KNEW I was doing something wrong be putting all those books and articles on the side !)
All four players deserve praise for their accomplishments. But you can't say who deserves the MOST praise, because their accomplishments are different and we will praise them for different things. I can see that player A does not get many votes. That's because he looks too lucky. But, hey, we don't have evidence that he is a donkey or that he can not stick to bankroll management rules. Therefore, so far he has the most promising future out of those four.
Geez, I KNEW I was doing something wrong be putting all those books and articles on the side !) 
