Hi, forum mates! I am on a heavy downswing for already more than three months. As a result, I had to go down as low in stakes as NL 10 and I am still loosing. I think that I might be doing something wrong or maybe some kind of a flaw developed in my game. I regularly review my sessions but can't find any serious drawback. So, I decided to ask for your opinions. There is a lot of hand histories posted here for discussion. I want to post several hands too, but I want to do it in a different way. I will post my hand history in portions, so that you can not see the outcome at once. It is easy to analyse a hand when you see how it ended. It will be more usefull for me to know how you would play it in my place without knowing opponents hand. It will be more fun for you too. Of course, later I will post the complete hand history.
1) What hand or range of hands do you put my opponent on? 2) What would be your next move (if you were me)? If raise, then how much?
Please, explain your actions. Please, have in mind that it is micro limits cash game with all its pros and contras. Also be aware, that the hand can be winning as well as loosing.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 79
Im would jus put him allin on turn, hit a dream flop, even if he has 2 pair maybe QJ, U still have flush draw as back plus the K, either way im not folding, ive if you check call it down
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I would say that raising to 0.50 in late position with KQ and one limper is a good start. Although it does depend on your opponents image and what you think your own image is, but let's assume you don't know this.
How I would act from then on is probably different to what is recommended. I would tend to see a flop like that and think wow let's go but thinking about it rationally I would say be careful. You have a strong flush draw, he is unlikely to have the ace as he only called preflop, but what if the pot gets too big and you don't hit, you can't really call an all in on top pair alone. You bet 60 into a pot of 1.25. If he shoves now you can call as you are guaranteed to have outs. Worst case scenario is a race and you have committed enough to justify it, best case scenario is he has a smaller flush draw. But as he calls the pot is now 2.45 - rake and he has only 2.40 left. You can't call his all in with top pair as he may have hit two pair, especially now there's a jack. Since he's given you the chance to check I'd say check behind. Very unlikely he has a straight draw or an ace high flush draw. The only way his hand will improve is if he hits two pair and he's probly going to call a push with his Q anyway. If he already has a better hand such as trips or two pair then you may as well take a free card.
Unlikely that you will fold even if you get a horrible card on the river but otherwise it's all in on the turn. Just my opinion but I think you committed yourself with that bet on the flop.
Posted by awood88: Although it does depend on your opponents image and what you think your own image is, but let's assume you don't know this.
We don't have information on the player. My image is TAG.
Posted by awood88: he is unlikely to have the ace as he only called preflop
At that moment I didn't rule out him holding an A. For instance with a weak kicker. That's why he just called. Happens on microlimits all the time.
I'll wait for couple more suggestions and then post the outcome.
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Posted by JeVoOOo: How did you lose the hand?
Are you using a HUD??
Who said I lost it? I use Holdem Manager, when I play higher limits. But here I was multitabling and I find NL10 is not the best level to use information from Holdem Manager.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by shokaku: 1) Most of the time he will have a pair. But there are some draws possible too. If he had hit a set, good luck to him.
2) Opponent has just one pot sized bet behind, and we are not folding this, so put him all in.
Cant say more, opponent isnt deep stacked so even easier to put him allin. Your hand is strong, if he have a set unlucky you still have outs, same goes for AQ, if he folds u pick up the pot.
Anyway i am a cash donk but thats how this cash donk wud play this hand
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 106
He prolly has a straight flush gut shot and riverstars will do the rest (9c on the river), so take your chips and run, this is gonna get very ugly...
No, i agree with the first two - just push. I would have bet more on the flop, so he can shove all-in - if hes interested in that pot, not gonna fold. Nearly impossible to have a serious clue about his hand, as you say its micro limits and no information about that guy. Some people think they have to defend their blinds... He has no information about u either, but does he care?! Calling out of position, again does he care?! - we dont know - its fkn cash game, so on that flop and with his stack, i would try to get the chips in asap...
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Looks like the general consensus is push all in on the turn. To be clear I don't think it would be a bad move; if you're going to bet it has to be all in. The reason I would check is because I don't imagine he has a hand that can improve that he would fold on the turn. You have no fold equity imo but if he has something that he might fold for instance a lower flush draw he might bet all in on the river.
The main thing I'd question is the bet on the flop. Even though I'd have probly done the same without the thinking time. I see the flush as your strongest hand here so you want to either be in a position where you can go all in on the flop or wait until your sure you've got him. Checking the flop gives him a chance to hit second pair if he has Q10 for instance but he's calling with it anyway. Maybe you could put in a smaller bet on the flop in case he has a small pair and maybe to coax him into raising. If he bets into you on the turn you can raise all in and you get the same result but this way it's just less risky for you and you can get him all in with a lot more hands.
I'm probly over-analysing it and I might be wrong but I just see a dangerous hand with too much bad beat potential.
So, as you can see, we ended up going all in after the turn (though it was initiated by my opponent). At showdown I was like 73 % to 27% favorite but lost to a set. And would have lost to a bigger flush if club had hit the river. I believe, we can consider this hand played correctly by me but I was unlucky. Right? I'll look for some more interesting and controversial hands and post them soon.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I am absolutely amazed that the other guy had Ac Jc. I would never in the world have put him on having the Ac. I can just about understand why he didn't raise pre-flop but why the hell do you check-call on the flop with a nut flush and nothing else leaving yourself with less than the size of the pot. One of those times where idiot play gets rewarded.
You probly should have gone all in on the turn instead of betting but I don't think it would have saved you.
PokerStars Game #41313806569: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2010/03/18 1:43:54 MSK [2010/03/17 18:43:54 ET] Table 'Thetis' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: johan75a ($25 in chips) Seat 2: worm68 ($25 in chips) Seat 3: RedeemedSoul ($8.25 in chips) Seat 4: vibes73 ($8 in chips) Seat 5: itaba ($28.20 in chips) Seat 6: DDNorth ($10.90 in chips) Seat 7: Thiagoware ($29.20 in chips) Seat 8: iviori ($5 in chips) Seat 9: HERO ($27.65 in chips) Thiagoware: posts small blind $0.10 iviori: posts big blind $0.25 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to HERO [Ac Ah] HERO: raises $0.75 to $1 johan75a: folds worm68: calls $1 RedeemedSoul: raises $1.25 to $2.25 vibes73: folds itaba: folds DDNorth: folds Thiagoware: folds iviori: folds HERO: ???
worm68 is a solid reasonable player. There is no information on RedeemedSoul.
What would you do? Just call? Reraise? If yes, then how much? Go all in? Considering that worm68 is to act after us, do we want to keep him in the pot or do we want to push him out of it? Please, explain your actions. I will post the continuation of the hand after I get some comments.
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Argentina
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 748
If you call here, pot is $5, shorty has $6 behind. Be wary there is no postflop play then, and you are OOP. Are you going to bet flops no matter what? I guess so. And given your opponent has barely more than a pot sized bet, you can't bet less than putting him all in. You are getting all his money in the pot no matter what. Better do it preflop and get done with it. 3bet all in.
Posted by teteban: Be wary there is no postflop play then, and you are OOP.
There might be postflop play because we still have one more potential caller (worm68). If we make just a call here, we can let him join the pot. Or maybe he even be tempted to reraise (or shove).
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I think you should raise. If you slow play aces, it's cos you know the player you're up against and you know you can gain more chips outplaying him post flop. you also have to be prepared to throw away aces if you slow play them and the flop is dangerous. You're first to act every time so the best thing to do is raise. Shokaku is right; they are your options.
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi schmoyster.
When a short do a miniraise I reraise 3bet. This move can bring you information about worm68, too.
Never slow AA if two players or more can easily see in flop. And if you only call the reraise, you are given (correct english?) all the odds of the world to worm68.
Thank you for your opinions. Let's see how the hand ended.
PokerStars Game #41313806569: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2010/03/18 1:43:54 MSK [2010/03/17 18:43:54 ET] Table 'Thetis' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: johan75a ($25 in chips) Seat 2: worm68 ($25 in chips) Seat 3: RedeemedSoul ($8.25 in chips) Seat 4: vibes73 ($8 in chips) Seat 5: itaba ($28.20 in chips) Seat 6: DDNorth ($10.90 in chips) Seat 7: Thiagoware ($29.20 in chips) Seat 8: iviori ($5 in chips) Seat 9: HERO ($27.65 in chips) Thiagoware: posts small blind $0.10 iviori: posts big blind $0.25 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to HERO [Ac Ah] HERO: raises $0.75 to $1 johan75a: folds worm68: calls $1 RedeemedSoul: raises $1.25 to $2.25 vibes73: folds itaba: folds DDNorth: folds Thiagoware: folds iviori: folds HERO: raises $3.25 to $5.50 worm68: folds RedeemedSoul: raises $2.75 to $8.25 and is all-in HERO: calls $2.75 *** FLOP *** [Th As 3d] *** TURN *** [Th As 3d] *** RIVER *** [Th As 3d 5s] *** SHOW DOWN *** HERO: shows [Ac Ah] (three of a kind, Aces) RedeemedSoul: shows [Kc Kd] (a pair of Kings) RedeemedSoul leaves the table HERO collected $17 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $17.85 | Rake $0.85 Board [Th As 3d 5s 7d] Seat 1: johan75a folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: worm68 folded before Flop Seat 3: RedeemedSoul showed [Kc Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings Seat 4: vibes73 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: itaba folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: DDNorth (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Thiagoware (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 8: iviori (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 9: HERO showed [Ac Ah] and won ($17) with three of a kind, Aces
I didn't want worm68 to stay in the hand. So I reraised the short stack. worm68 folded and wrote in chat that he had had QQ. So, good fold for him. You are welcome to comment.
