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Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
First of all guys i dont want to turn this thread into another bad beat/whining thread.
I look at my historic of poker and after 3 years i dont see any improove in my game. Well my game has improoved but i keep getting such crazy beats like the first day. When i started to play i looked into the game and i called crap most of the times and i got punished for that almost all time. Then i decided well, lets read some books and start to make thing right. Unfortunately doesnt work for me, i dont know what wrong witth me i just get beated in the biggest hands. I dont blame the sites because it happens to me in all sites i play. I know i tilt alot wich gaved me crazy downswings untill bust all my roll.
Maybe my problem is not that i dont understand about the game, maybe iam just an unlucky player. Living my life most of times afraid to make big decisions, maybe afects in my game, because i feel most of times that i say "here we go the river again" and then the river comes to f**k me up. I need to think positive in my game, but most of times iam playing think that some donkey will trap me as always.
What do you think about my situaction? In your opinion wich afects more the game??? Lucky?? Knowledg????
I understand you perfectly because I suffered the same as you. Then I decided to improve my play definitively or give up at all. It was a "push or fold" decision. I started studying my hands, what i did wrong, what to improve, how to read my opponents ... I don't wanted to get lucky: i only wanted to play with EV+. If I had AA against KK and i lose, for me is ok because my call is EV+. In this way, you start winning money in long run. You'll have bad swings and lucky ones but, the main thing is EV+, i.e. playing well. Good luck and study hard, it's the only one (at least, the only way i've found!)
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
If you dont make profit after 3 years of poker then your simply not good enough (no offend). You do someting wrong, cant say wot cos i dont know your game, maybe you think your playing by the book but you dont. Poker is very simple, just play bythe book and you start making money in the long run.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by doomdy: If you dont make profit after 3 years of poker then your simply not good enough (no offend). You do someting wrong, cant say wot cos i dont know your game, maybe you think your playing by the book but you dont. Poker is very simple, just play bythe book and you start making money in the long run.
You must find youre own way to play... And...if you want advice, stop playing cash games. Maybe it is not youre thing... Try to play tight sng and mtt... Im unprofitable on cash but very profitable on tourneys, guess that with doomdy is same thing...
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by DaMessiah666: I understand you perfectly because I suffered the same as you. Then I decided to improve my play definitively or give up at all. It was a "push or fold" decision. I started studying my hands, what i did wrong, what to improve, how to read my opponents ... I don't wanted to get lucky: i only wanted to play with EV+. If I had AA against KK and i lose, for me is ok because my call is EV+. In this way, you start winning money in long run. You'll have bad swings and lucky ones but, the main thing is EV+, i.e. playing well. Good luck and study hard, it's the only one (at least, the only way i've found!)
Spot on!!! +1
Poker is about EV+ playing, but with EV+ we still can have a downswing even a very nasty 1, but with EV+ we can 100% trust we are winning in the long run with a decent sample size. Study, improve, study, improve and repaet
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
Posted by doomdy: If you dont make profit after 3 years of poker then your simply not good enough (no offend). You do someting wrong, cant say wot cos i dont know your game, maybe you think your playing by the book but you dont. Poker is very simple, just play bythe book and you start making money in the long run.
Feel free to say whatever you think, of course i dont get ofended.
I admit its a possibility, i know where my game lacks, i have hard time to give up big hands, and most of times i read really bad the flop cards.
But for something there is a reason, i learned the books saying that players calling weak hands in the long run they are a loosers, but the only looser here its me, who gets beated over over and over with big guns. I have readed 4 books untill today: Easy game Vol 1 and 2 Poker book of bluffs Tricks to make you better players by lou krieger.
After read this 4 books i keep getting beated, well maybe a bad player is just the unlucky player in the table. Its easy to point to unlucky player as a bad player.
And yes for sure i didnt improoved well my game, but i dont find any potion to avoid get called by stupid all ins that end hitting the flop or the river.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by kinogomes: But for something there is a reason, i learned the books saying that players calling weak hands in the long run they are a loosers, but the only looser here its me, who gets beated over over and over with big guns. I have readed 4 books untill today: Easy game Vol 1 and 2 Poker book of bluffs Tricks to make you better players by lou krieger.
Dont know the books, i think books from Harrington or Sklansky are best, they have books for MTT, SNG or CASH. read just 1 for MTT or CASH doesnt matter then only play 10seater tables and only TAG, just low limit, then playing by the book is deffo profitable (long run), if you still dont make money you dont play by the book
------------ Edit: Check this graph, its from myself with a pretty nasty downswing and still going, i dont play bad i play EV+ its just the nasty bitch Misses Variance, everybody gets its, good or bad players.
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
I had 1 accountwhen i was living in france that i made around 700 bucks profit, and the game was going very well for me, i didnt got beated often with the big guns. Since i came back to Portugal i hade to make another account and since iam here i cant beat the game anymore. Not even in the Sngs i was used to win often.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I dont know what to say, LOL, from what I understand you say your game is not better, but it is!, but now you still get crazy beats, you tilt bad and are unsure if you understand poker, afraid to make dessions expect to be beat on the river. What do I think about your situaction? Well I think what you said above.
In my opinion wich afects game the more??? We all need luck, Knowlage is power, the books are re-written all the time because the game changes all the time, no point reading how to beat NL1000 whn you play PL50, I like bingo players, placing blaim on Davoodoo or anyone else is disreguarding your own mistakes and Im just giving up as you give nothing for anyone to help you out. If you like I can take random guess to why you lose. But lets try these none helpfull things, dont tilt, make dessions, understand poker, be possative and read relevent topics, the beno wont help your game.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by kinogomes: I had 1 accountwhen i was living in france that i made around 700 bucks profit, and the game was going very well for me, i didnt got beated often with the big guns. Since i came back to Portugal i hade to make another account and since iam here i cant beat the game anymore. Not even in the Sngs i was used to win often.
These are graphs with under 1,000 games, thats not a sample size, for SNG try 2K+ games for MTTs try even far more (the more runners the higher the sample must be).
Again no offend but in the other thread your talking about folding big hands during the bubble, even KK/QQ your folding there I am sure we have found a big big big leak in there.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I don't play by the books cos I've never read a poker book nor do I intend to but I think I play ok. I also think i've had a lot of bad luck and should be in much bigger profits by now but don't we all think that?
It's very interesting for people who should be logical gamblers to think about the concept of luck. Even though many poker pros have their lucky charms and their rituals I seriously doubt whether they truly believe in luck as a power or world force. We always talk about odds, + or -ev and how to gamble for the long term.
But actually when you think about it, it would be quite odd if all the +ev and -ev moves balanced out over a year, it would be odd if a hand that was supposed to win 60% of the time, actually won 60% over a life time. There must be variance between players, which ultimately means that some players are lucky and some will be very unlucky. The best you can do is try to make as much profit from the luck you have and give yourself the best chance by playing the odds.
Remember, luck/chance has no memory so regardless of how much you've lost in the past, you have just as much chance to make a profit from now as anyone else with your skill level. And it's probably true that consistent winners, are the players who react positively even when they lose and don't have that common tendency to remember their bad luck.
Either way, we cannot blame luck for losing long term. It is not something, which can be measured or quantified, but it is something we must live with.
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
Posted by B1gfoot: I dont know what to say, LOL, from what I understand you say your game is not better, but it is!, but now you still get crazy beats, you tilt bad and are unsure if you understand poker, afraid to make dessions expect to be beat on the river. What do I think about your situaction? Well I think what you said above.
In my opinion wich afects game the more??? We all need luck, Knowlage is power, the books are re-written all the time because the game changes all the time, no point reading how to beat NL1000 whn you play PL50, I like bingo players, placing blaim on Davoodoo or anyone else is disreguarding your own mistakes and Im just giving up as you give nothing for anyone to help you out. If you like I can take random guess to why you lose. But lets try these none helpfull things, dont tilt, make dessions, understand poker, be possative and read relevent topics, the beno wont help your game.
HAHAHAHAHA your very funny guy, i like your humour.
Tell me your guess why i loose.
As i told before i dont want to make this another bad beat thread, actually this thread its to talk more your opinions about lucky vs knowledge in the poker games.
Doomdy i dont play your big volume of games because for me more than 4 tables is -EV. I know it cause i already tryed to multi tabling. Usually i play 2 tables sngs, and after my work wich makes maximum 5 tournments per day and most of the days i dont play them, like last months i have been trying more to play cash tables.
I am sure we have found a big big big leak in there. What do you mean??? i dont understand.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by kinogomes: I am sure we have found a big big big leak in there. What do you mean??? i dont understand.
I meant folding KK/QQ during the bubble. There must be a very good reason why i even fold a pair during the bubble, folding KK/QQ is just crazy and you for sure dont maximize your profit with that move, in fact your minimize your profit with that move.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Ha, well in that case luck... its something knowlage just cant beat, would I rather be lucky than be a knowlageable player, give me that luck any day of the week. My guess to why you lose is because you are not lucky, and its all down to Davoodoo.
Posted by DaMessiah666: I understand you perfectly because I suffered the same as you. Then I decided to improve my play definitively or give up at all. It was a "push or fold" decision. I started studying my hands, what i did wrong, what to improve, how to read my opponents ... I don't wanted to get lucky: i only wanted to play with EV+. If I had AA against KK and i lose, for me is ok because my call is EV+. In this way, you start winning money in long run. You'll have bad swings and lucky ones but, the main thing is EV+, i.e. playing well. Good luck and study hard, it's the only one (at least, the only way i've found!)
+1 You said what I would have said but in a much more better way... and my other suggestion for OP is that he should learn more about bankrollmanagement... try to respect this mate...
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
OP if you want to get better and are totally serious about it, get a coach. It's obvious you have leaks that need fixing and no amount of posts from the good people here at bankrollmob are going to fix them. The games are evolving everyday, and you need to evolve with them.
All this talk about +ev play is laughable imo as it's clear you don't totally understand the concept and I doubt most here do. ABC poker will not get you anywhere anymore as better players will exploit you.
To be a winning player you need to actually play the game and make sure your strategy is solid vs different player types. Too many people think they can play standard poker and be winning but the fact is, the games are harder now than they ever were and if you cant adjust you may as well be burning money.
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Finland
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1613
Its my fault
PokerStars Home Game #56028256293: {Bankrollmob players} Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/01/16 19:18:16 EET [2011/01/16 12:18:16 ET] Table 'Pippa IV' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 3: Davoodoojaha ($2.56 in chips) Seat 4: 1SillyBoy ($1.78 in chips) 1SillyBoy: posts small blind $0.01 Davoodoojaha: posts big blind $0.02 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Davoodoojaha [7d 7s] 1SillyBoy: raises $0.08 to $0.10 Davoodoojaha: raises $2.46 to $2.56 and is all-in 1SillyBoy: calls $1.68 and is all-in Uncalled bet ($0.78) returned to Davoodoojaha *** FLOP *** [Jh 8c Jd] *** TURN *** [Jh 8c Jd] *** RIVER *** [Jh 8c Jd As] *** SHOW DOWN *** Davoodoojaha: shows [7d 7s] (a full house, Sevens full of Jacks) 1SillyBoy: shows [Kh Kd] (two pair, Kings and Jacks) Davoodoojaha collected $3.39 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $3.56 | Rake $0.17 Board [Jh 8c Jd As 7c] Seat 3: Davoodoojaha (big blind) showed [7d 7s] and won ($3.39) with a full house, Sevens full of Jacks Seat 4: 1SillyBoy (button) (small blind) showed [Kh Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jack
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Quite right JeVoOo ABC is dead!! Im out there killing it, but those who know that im stabbing at the ABC players are stabbing at me LOL, dog eat dog...and how can you figure out EV when you cant figure out who your playing or worse how your playing , not that you should ignore EV its a vital concept of poker. But I dont think a coach would be viable for him ATM, I dont think its worth the money untill your playing min of NL100 its -EV Its very true what JeVoOo is saying, poker changes so fast, everyone and his dog knows how to play ABC, perhaps you just got left behind with the times, and its the same for I play LAG or I play TAG..f**k that play poker, dont put yourself in a box, know who you are playing, have a reason for everything you do...or just fold every flop you miss. I still vote for luck
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
How can we talk about +EV hands when i make a deposit of 100 bucks, play 4 tables nl10 and in 300 hands session i receive 3 AA 3 KK and 3 QQ. If i re raise AA pre flop and nobody calls i win nothing, if i get called and i get caught by the fflop cards iam runing in -EV. Lets put the example that nobody calls you in 3, and you called other 3 times and with your agression you win few bucks, and you get called other 3 times and with your agression you get called and beated. In the long run this is -EV. ABC poker is useless right now cause the blinds will being eating up your coins if your waiting for the big guns. As soon as you receive them, everybody folds you cause they already now they are playing against a super tight player. Making the % of the maximum i can win with AA and the maximum i can loose with the same hand, most of the times i loose more than what i win. Talking about in the EV long run its only possible if your getting paid at maximum every time you get big guns, because most of the times you end wining almost anything.
You must find youre own way to play... And...if you want advice, stop playing cash games. Maybe it is not youre thing... Try to play tight sng and mtt... Im unprofitable on cash but very profitable on tourneys, guess that with doomdy is same thing...
I am sure we have found a big big big leak in there.
its something knowlage just cant beat, would I rather be lucky than be a knowlageable player, give me that luck any day of the week.
