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Joined: Aug '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 49
"Thrust is a reaction force described quantitatively by Newton's second and third laws. When a system expels or accelerates mass in one direction the accelerated mass will cause a proportional but opposite force on that system."
hmm, thats whats best about this forum now and then someone pops up with more than one braincell above his belt, thx for the information on physics I will try to apply this to my poker game and thrust forward now perhaps Doz will transfer some thrust in an upward direction in the cerebral sense
cer·e·bral (sr-brl, s-r-) adj. 1. Of or relating to the brain or cerebrum. 2. Appealing to or requiring the use of the intellect; intellectual rather than emotional: "His approach is cerebral, analytical, cautious" (Helen Dewar).
Edited by midnight1954 (09 February 2011 @ 16:23 GMT)
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Nice tread Midnight I have never used bots and I wouldnt do that. I think that poker is game of strategy and brain and programs dont have brain. I dont know how they work but I will continue to play with my brain instead with program. Also I dont like cheaters and cheating and for moral reasons I will never use bot. And I think that people who use bots are losers and they will stay losers no matter what they do!
Joined: Jan '10
Location: United States
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 205
I cannot stop thinking that they are out there and maybe thats why the same names keep consistently getting into the BIG prize money,thats not to say thats what there doing but who really knows anymore.People cheat people all the time so whos to say........................
hmm its a very interesting topic obviously a bot is just a preprogrammed set of heuristic guidelines for the game built into an automaton which acts accordingly to those pre-defined rules. I believe the use of bots could not compete with human intelligence fully. I do concede that what humans are generally bad at computer bots would be good at (like longer sessions, sticking to hand ranges) but as for the dynamic response needed from one hand to the next there is nothing like the human mind. Most bots as I understand it are tight agr and for their unwavering approach can be identified and manipulated in the same way you would manipulate a NIT or a rock.
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 49
not predefined per-se, it is also possible to program a bunch of self optimizing parameters. the bot then reviews its own effectiveness and tweaks its settings, basicly this is evolution. But this is really sophisticated, the far majority of bots are shanky bots and the like, pre defined, static, uber tight , drones...
I know someone on the inside, experimenting is done with the use of neural networks and trend prediction (like in trading systems) to pre process the stats from pokertracker, the thesis was, can the system predict the next movement (up or down) of for example,the rooms vpip%. This can be done but only a few hands in advance , and it only predicts, up, or down, not specifics.
I also came to know botting will soon be illegal by LAW. this is a huge step, and good news for all bot fearing players out there
hmm, after reading the possibilities of the AI that these BOTS have and can also self develop perhaps it is about time that they are made unlawful with punisments similar to fraud law if users are caught
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 49
yes, I agree, but there is no stopping to this, we live in a day and age where a self mutating internet "worm/trojan horse" can enter and shutdown a nucleair facility.
It will be a cat and mouse game, stealth is a whole area on itself aside from bot programming, these guys team up , and every person takes 1 aspect to their account.
1 stealth 2 bot logic 3 automated table "hopper" , wich decides what tables to enter based on stats.. 4 statistics 5 testing and debugging 6 project manager
I read once about a succesfull botting group from south korea, getting busted and hunders of thousands of cash frozen,
They got busted because they all used the exact same bot, so the guys from the pokersites could see there where multiple players with EXACTLY the same stats, pfr%, vpip%, etc
Aside from that they had everything covered, just an example of how hard it is to not get busted when you do get succesfull at botting.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 52
This is like taking a calculator to a math contest or singing Karoke and taking credit for it. It takes the thinking out of the game and although they work they are a real problem and should be illegal.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 509
i remember fulltilt accused a plyer of usi thhis and tey took 80,000 from her account and closed her downshe took them to court and sued fulltilt for 40 million
Posted by neonexus: yes, I agree, but there is no stopping to this, we live in a day and age where a self mutating internet "worm/trojan horse" can enter and shutdown a nucleair facility.
It will be a cat and mouse game, stealth is a whole area on itself aside from bot programming, these guys team up , and every person takes 1 aspect to their account.
1 stealth 2 bot logic 3 automated table "hopper" , wich decides what tables to enter based on stats.. 4 statistics 5 testing and debugging 6 project manager
I read once about a succesfull botting group from south korea, getting busted and hunders of thousands of cash frozen,
They got busted because they all used the exact same bot, so the guys from the pokersites could see there where multiple players with EXACTLY the same stats, pfr%, vpip%, etc
Aside from that they had everything covered, just an example of how hard it is to not get busted when you do get succesfull at botting.
yes I have read some on this subject but do not have the knowledge to understand the mechanics of the plot, but it is obviously operated by well educated and organised people, it is a shame that there talents and energy have been channeled into what is after all criminal activity , the financial rewards are huge obviously and I am sure someone or some group is at this moment making a good living doing it, like I said in the OP at times on low stake STGs I have had the feeling that I am playing a bot, but hopefully that was just paranoia or a really good opponents I will probably never know, hopefully the big sites sicurity can keep up with the advances tha bot creators come up with,
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 2805
all bigest poker sites try to prevent from this robots and in time they found them and all the money was back for the loosers using hand history i think we sometimes play against the robots (bots) but we dont know it and dont worry about it i think every poker site have working robots but they all was founded and banned in time good luck all and be happy
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by neonexus: yes, I agree, but there is no stopping to this, we live in a day and age where a self mutating internet "worm/trojan horse" can enter and shutdown a nucleair facility.
It will be a cat and mouse game, stealth is a whole area on itself aside from bot programming, these guys team up , and every person takes 1 aspect to their account.
1 stealth 2 bot logic 3 automated table "hopper" , wich decides what tables to enter based on stats.. 4 statistics 5 testing and debugging 6 project manager
I read once about a succesfull botting group from south korea, getting busted and hunders of thousands of cash frozen,
They got busted because they all used the exact same bot, so the guys from the pokersites could see there where multiple players with EXACTLY the same stats, pfr%, vpip%, etc
Aside from that they had everything covered, just an example of how hard it is to not get busted when you do get succesfull at botting.
Totally against the use of Bots, of course, but this is a very interesting discussion. What I don´t get is why these obviously intelligent South Koreans didn´t include a random parameter for ranges, bets etc. It would have been undetectable IMO.
The "randomness" would not necessarily have made it less profitable, as it would have been harder to play against using huds and such. Just a thought...
