Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Well I feel I should give a warning to all players about things on Betraiser site... First thing that is wired there is fact that they dont have traffic at all and they give lot of money with freerolls and guaranteed tourneys so I dont get how they dont bankrupt...BUT i think I discovered how... I won some money on freeroll and decided to play cash table. So I played 10NL and wired thing started to happened... I had A5 and flop was 255...guy raises and I (knowing what kind of donks playing there) go all in (8euros in pot of 1e) and guy call and shows A6! Next two cards were 3 and 4... Few hands later I have JK and Im in hand with same guy... Flop was 10QA guy again raises and im again all in... he calls and shows 22! Next two cards was 22!!! So only way to him to call is to know which cards will hit board... Probably that is theirs player who know exactly which card will hit board... I really dont have any other explanation... So just wont to warn all of you guys and also people who google in search for information about this site... If any site on this world is rigged-this one is!!!
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
I fully agree. When I was on Betraiser last year I had very strong suspicions of a superuser(s) on this site. Although I never played against one, I railed one .25/.50 NLHE cash game where the guy was up to $1000! He kept hitting improbable hand after improbable hand, calling with all kinds of weird stuff and hitting repeatedly. Along with the other odd things I saw there, this moved me to leave that site for good.
Does betraiser still has the 0% rake policy? I remembere d when they first started they had massive freer rolls and also advertised a lot on their NO RAKE policy which left me wondering....WTF,how does a site make any $ if there is no rake?!?!?! Smelled so fishy and when I downloaded their software to check out the feell and traffic...all it took was like 5 minutes and I was at CONTROL PANEL-UNINSTALL BETRAISER!
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Yes they have still that policy and still have good freerolls, instead of rake they take 10% when you withdraw money and that would be great but...read first post...
Just watch any televised poker game and you will see how many bad beats and suck outs you will see... Count number of hands in Poker after dark episode and number of bad beats...
END QUOTE
I seen these kind of hand so many times on other sites to especially the big sites "People" ...calling my trips on the flop with nothing only 2 spades and catching runner runner spade for al their money....i have seen hundreds of these situations...its not just betraiser
Probely a house bot picked up your cash in this case but why wont the big rooms do it They dont do it to stay alive like the little rooms but to make millions even billions more every year You think they dont want that ??
Just watch any televised poker game and you will see how many bad beats and suck outs you will see... Count number of hands in Poker after dark episode and number of bad beats...
END QUOTE
I seen these kind of hand so many times on other sites to especially the big sites "People" ...calling my trips on the flop with nothing only 2 spades and catching runner runner spade for al their money....i have seen hundreds of these situations...its not just betraiser
Probely a house bot picked up your cash in this case but why wont the big rooms do it They dont do it to stay alive like the little rooms but to make millions even billions more every year You think they dont want that ??
You are stupid and I wont argue with you... If you can see difference between this and other sites then I don have to talk anything with you... Talking that whole online poker is rigged is ridiculous but sure there are some sites that do that and I doubt that biggest networks are rigged... Can you imagine poker stars with 100 000 players online in every moment have superusers to take you money on micros???Or to have software so sophisticated to decide from 100 000 people in every second who wins and who lose???.... why I bother?
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Posted by Funope: Did u take some screenshots? These are incredible hands. Calling with those hands on such a board. He definitly knew something.
How to take screen shot when it takes one secound for all cards to hit board and you dont have previous hand option... They even give pot to winner before last hand hit board!
Joined: Mar '10
Location: Ukraine
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 11
once i played in a tourney at betraiser. i had hole cards A4o. one guy raised, i went all-in. he showed AA. there were 44 on the flop. that guy was very, very upset and started name calling in a chat.
i saw when AA had been losing in tourneys there very often, mainly in all-ins
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 228
sorry to hear about your story on betraiser jovi...how about bodog? do you have any experience on that site? i registered on it just to see what it's like...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
That sure is a very sad story if its true. They dont have a big field of players and those who they have they cheat on them? Bad... But you also should think everything is possible and, if players there are as bad as you said, which i believe they are, so they certainly give a call to your all-in with the hands you asid, and noone ever knows which cards can come to tha table... which turns possible for those hands to happen without "schemes" behind.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by Fakiry: That sure is a very sad story if its true. They dont have a big field of players and those who they have they cheat on them? Bad... But you also should think everything is possible and, if players there are as bad as you said, which i believe they are, so they certainly give a call to your all-in with the hands you asid, and noone ever knows which cards can come to tha table... which turns possible for those hands to happen without "schemes" behind.
I strongly believe that no player is that bad to make such calls... Just cant belive that someone would make that kind of calls if he didnt know exactly which cards will hit board... If you dont belive me download that room and look... Im sure you will see lot of strange things... Strange thing is that that room still works with 30 players in peak time... And they have 2E buy in tourneys 100E guaranteed and avarage field on those tourneys is 30 players... So on every tourney they lose at least 40E + freerolls 100E prize pool... How can they make profit and survive 3 years that way? They cheat, thats how...
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
[ [/QUOTE] You are stupid and I wont argue with you... If you can see difference between this and other sites then I don have to talk anything with you... Talking that whole online poker is rigged is ridiculous but sure there are some sites that do that and I doubt that biggest networks are rigged... Can you imagine poker stars with 100 000 players online in every moment have superusers to take you money on micros???Or to have software so sophisticated to decide from 100 000 people in every second who wins and who lose???.... why I bother?
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i seen the same things on pokerstars...people calling with nothing and cathing runner runner to win
And yes i can imagine house bots are on pokerstars at every time no superusers
There's no way to proove if any pokersite does this And if only 1 of these bots can make millions a year why think that they dont do it ?? 1000 bots can make maybe a billion every year...nice right ?
And of course they can track every hand and every player at every time Yes the software is that sophisticated....we living in 2011 remember ?? not 1980
if Betraiser have this sophisticated software why a 100000 times richer company doesnt ?
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Not familiar with that site, but never even thought there could be any scams out there. Nice to know it's possible. Guess that's a good reason not to deposit to much $$. Thanks for the information Mobsters! GL at the tables
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
And remember most of these hands arent as obvious off course but still do the same job If you have JJ and the flop comes 2J6 with 2 hearts and the other player (house bot?) has a heart draw and bets big you call or go over the top off course or maybe all in to protect your hand.Flop comes 10 of spades ....guy goes all in or maybe you all in already.Then a heart comes on the river and you loose.Same thing has been done as with those ridiculous hands but much less obvious and much smarter if you wanne cheat as a pokerroom....because this way people will not think about cheating as fast as those impossible hands...but for the trained eye who plays lots off hands in the long run its very obvious whats happening
Posted by remco2504: And if only 1 of these bots can make millions a year why think that they dont do it ?? 1000 bots can make maybe a billion every year...nice right ?
There is no way poker bots can make that much. I don't remember the figures but their ROI is pretty low. Positive but low. They can only be used on low stakes. On higher stakes, where the game is more sophisticated the bot can hardly make any money. It is because its modus operandi is strictly mathematical and it can not handle some unexpected moves from a real player. If you figured out that you are playing against a bot, in fact, it is relatively easy to beat it.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by schmoyster:
Posted by remco2504: And if only 1 of these bots can make millions a year why think that they dont do it ?? 1000 bots can make maybe a billion every year...nice right ?
There is no way poker bots can make that much. I don't remember the figures but their ROI is pretty low. Positive but low. They can only be used on low stakes. On higher stakes, where the game is more sophisticated the bot can hardly make any money. It is because its modus operandi is strictly mathematical and it can not handle some unexpected moves from a real player. If you figured out that you are playing against a bot, in fact, it is relatively easy to beat it.
I am not talking about normal bots ....but about house bots !
And you say a bot is easy to defeat...i am not talking about normal bots who people use at home i am talking about HOUSE bots...bots who know witch cards are comming...u cant win get it
Read this from wikipedia
House botsThe subject of house bots is even more controversial due to the conflict of interest it potentially poses. By the strictest definition, a house bot is an automated player operated by the online poker room itself, although some would define more indirect examples (for example, a player operating bots with the knowledge and consent of the operator) as "house bots" as well. These type of bots would be the equivalent of brick and mortar shills.
In a brick and mortar casino a house player does not subvert the fairness of the game being offered as long as the house is dealing honestly. In an online setting the same is also true. By definition, an honest online poker room, that chooses to operate house bots, would guarantee that the house bots did not have access to any information not also available to any other player in the hand (the same would apply to any human shill as well). The problem is that in an online setting the house has no way to prove their bots are not receiving sensitive information from the card server. THIS IS FURTER EXACERBATED BY THE EASY WITH WICH THIS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IN A DIGATALl ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT BEEING DETECTED. For the house to even prove they are not using any house players to begin with is essentially impossible - probably the only real way that could be done would be to disclose the confidential personal information of every player and that obviously cannot be done due to privacy considerations
You say bots cant make that much ... What you think about tournaments...bot plays 20 tournaments a day and gets in the money not even top 10 every time..calculate the possebilities for 1000 tournament playing bots a year long
So its obvious that pokerrooms can have bots who know what cards are coming or what the other player has so you can never win .....
And the worst thing is ...no one can do anything about it
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by GIOMi6: I never played on Betraiser, but thanks for the warning. I will stay off that poker room for sure. I think PS and FTP are the greatest sites to play.
Cant believe why you think its only betraiser after reading all these posts ??...
