Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
Hey Mobster's, I know most of you aren't freeroller's but there are alot of novice players that get their start in the trenches there. I have recently been challengin myself to build a roll from nothing on FT, I am in the nightly Rush freeroll 106th out of 170, alot could happen wish me luck mobster's & GL to you!
------------ Just doubled through up to 80K!
------------ Just doubled through up to 80K!
------------ DOH! There is a reason I hate Jacks, I always mis-play them in some way! I think I should just fold them. This time I overplayed them and ran into an over-pusher with queens.... Well no need for your wishes of luck Mobster's I donked out in 140th....Oh well not like I can't do it again, back to the old drawing board!
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
^ If you're ever unsure about Js or 10s then play them EXACTLY like a small poker pair.. that is - set mine + flat call small bets where there is no overs or only 1 over.. Overyplaying JJ is a common rookie mistake - they look great.. but... consider this:
holding JJ - probability of there being NO over cards on the flop = 43% on the turn = 32% on the river = 23%
So.. the chances of the board having no Q,K,A by the river is only 23%. Now if you're raising up big with JJ preflop - what exactly is your opponents range... hands that involve aces, kings & queens of course..
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
I was at no point unsure, I big raised from early position utg+1. everybody folded except for the BB w a 200k stack who over shoved, which I mis-read for weakness and a small pair...I called only to find out the bad news. No worries, those kinds of beats are frustrating deep into a tourney, I was just venting my frustrations at my own short comings. My problem with my play is that that close to the money in such bad position, there is an argument to just fold.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Ah ok - fair enough - I've done the same a few times with 1010/JJ. Made a bad read on a shove. The thing is - it's generally worth considering the fold if even you think their shove is BS - simply because even a BS shove could easily contain 2 overs (leaving you flipping for your tourney).
I'd also consider folding JJ pre from UTG - depending on the table- otherwise limping (set-mining) this way you can flat call a raise - rather than being 3-bet or worse - being 3-bets shoved and having to make a very difficult decision for your tourney life.. Limping (and calling light raise) will let you see the flop at least - which is really what you want with JJ - really try and avoid getting it in pre with Js.
Also depending on what you think of your opponent - remember - a thinking opponent would read a big raise from UTG or UTG+1 as VERY strong - and is fairly unlikely to be shoving weak here.. Most likely he KNOWS you're strong and are likely to call his shove and wants you to.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Romania
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 76
I played too in the freeroll. Ended up somewhere in the 50s. I had some huge stacks at my table, and good cards eluded me. Was slowly blinded/anted out. When I finally shoved with A J ran into a small pocket pair which held out to the river I was out. Oh well... At least I feel like I`m learning stuff from these (specially late in the tourneys)
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
YEs I too will consider folding JJ utg, & utg+1, depending on the table, this was a rush tourney though so I didn't have much of a read except that he was over shoving. My first gut feeling was to fold wo even opening which I should've done, then when he over shoved my gut told me to call which I should not have done. Jacks are just one of those dangerous hands if you overvalue them, as I clearly did. Mice run arathemis, better luck next time.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 20
Posted by jessthehuman: Ah ok - fair enough - I've done the same a few times with 1010/JJ. Made a bad read on a shove. The thing is - it's generally worth considering the fold if even you think their shove is BS - simply because even a BS shove could easily contain 2 overs (leaving you flipping for your tourney).
I'd also consider folding JJ pre from UTG - depending on the table- otherwise limping (set-mining) this way you can flat call a raise - rather than being 3-bet or worse - being 3-bets shoved and having to make a very difficult decision for your tourney life.. Limping (and calling light raise) will let you see the flop at least - which is really what you want with JJ - really try and avoid getting it in pre with Js.
Also depending on what you think of your opponent - remember - a thinking opponent would read a big raise from UTG or UTG+1 as VERY strong - and is fairly unlikely to be shoving weak here.. Most likely he KNOWS you're strong and are likely to call his shove and wants you to.
probably the worste advise i have ever seen about playing jj
Joined: May '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 78
JJ is a strong hand, should always been raised preflop. After the flop you make a c-bet and see where you stand. Even if someone hits you still hit a j on the turn/river 1 out 10 times.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
Gurion...deep into a tourney I WOULD consider folding JJ in early pos. UTG & UTG+1, If you cannot consider this a possibility then you are doomed to make the same mistake I just explained. I did raise pre-flop, and the SB overshoved a huge stack having me covered & putting me to the decision. I made the wrong one and called all of my money an 8-1 dog. I've seen many great players fold JJ wo even calling a blind deep into a tourney...Humberto Bruenes comes to mind, I saw him do it in WSOP, when I was a novice player some years ago, and thought I could never consider this move. Alas I've grown to realize the merits in not risking your stack and tournament life on a dangerous hand.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by mcandrews3rd:
Posted by jessthehuman: Ah ok - fair enough - I've done the same a few times with 1010/JJ. Made a bad read on a shove. The thing is - it's generally worth considering the fold if even you think their shove is BS - simply because even a BS shove could easily contain 2 overs (leaving you flipping for your tourney).
I'd also consider folding JJ pre from UTG - depending on the table- otherwise limping (set-mining) this way you can flat call a raise - rather than being 3-bet or worse - being 3-bets shoved and having to make a very difficult decision for your tourney life.. Limping (and calling light raise) will let you see the flop at least - which is really what you want with JJ - really try and avoid getting it in pre with Js.
Also depending on what you think of your opponent - remember - a thinking opponent would read a big raise from UTG or UTG+1 as VERY strong - and is fairly unlikely to be shoving weak here.. Most likely he KNOWS you're strong and are likely to call his shove and wants you to.
probably the worste advise i have ever seen about playing jj
seeing a flop & set mining instead of getting into a massive raising war ?
com'on
------------ honestly dude - in a full ring MTT (9 or 10 seater) JJ is NOT a strong hand UTG or UTG+1 - either fold it, or see a cheap flop. Anything else is suicide.. Have you actually go good MTT results to back up your word or what ?
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 818
Too bad Hoodi but, i must agree with Jess on this one. In that position and when the blinds or high its not that strong of a hand. Offcourse when the blinds are low a raise preflop is ok. If your shortstacked and facing elimination by the blinds than jj would also be a all-inn push hand. So also depends on your current situation in the tourney.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
Jeff totally agree on JJ not being a strong hand in that position, I should've went with my initial gut feeling to fold (I had 99k, over shover in SB had 250k roughly) So I'll definately remember that next time! Island, that vid is f***ing hillarious a friend of mine named Greg sent me that about a year ago I almost cried laughing the first time I saw it! Thanks for the laugh I needed that!
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (F)
Posts: 1180
As you can see most of people do not like Jacks (there is a lot of video on YouTube "How To Play JJ" ), but I like JJ it is profitable hand for me ! Just need to know when to fold it !
There is a reason I hate Jacks, I always mis-play them in some way! I think I should just fold them. This time I overplayed them and ran into an over-pusher with queens.... 
Oh well... At least I feel like I`m learning stuff from these (specially late in the tourneys)
