Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I posted this in the JJ thread already - but since a lot of people won't see it there and I think it's pretty interesting and worthy of a new thread - I've re-posted:
ere's some interesting info regarding pocket pairs and the chances of seeing over cards on the flop: I cut this from wiki - but its a table - with probability and odds for there being NO over cards at each point giving a certain PP.
So you can see here - if you hold JJ there is ONLY a 43% chance of there NOT being an overcard on the flop - so more often than not - you're going to see a scare card. And by the river - the chances of there still being nothing higher than a J are only23%
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Thanks a lot for this interesting sheet of probabilties. I think I have seen it sometimes in the past elsewhere, but did not really paid attention to it. I guess I should pay more attention on these numbers in future
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (F)
Posts: 1180
Posted by SonFelix: pretty interesting staff jess ! too bad though that now i won't play my JJ's ever again
JJ is profitable hand and I do not understand why people do not like this hand I do not know your nickname at the pokersite but if I would know then I would like to check your profit(+/-) about only JJ :]
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Posted by Fackinas:
Posted by SonFelix: pretty interesting staff jess ! too bad though that now i won't play my JJ's ever again
JJ is profitable hand and I do not understand why people do not like this hand I do not know your nickname at the pokersite but if I would know then I would like to check your profit(+/-) about only JJ :]
Simply because lots of people dont know how to play it yet know exactly how to play AK o
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
OK I tink this thread will get those stuck with the likes of JJ viewing, so heres my guide on how to play JJ. Simple start, raise 3xbb +1 per limper, If there has been a raise then put in a re-raise 3x the size of that bet, If you get re-raised then you need good player info. Against loose 3-better, Im happy to go AI, if a tight villian 3-bets you simple fold. Me personally im looking to win this pre-flop, but a lot of my game is pre-flop play, I love control. Post flop is made easier if you are the aggressor, you are forcing the villian to make the hard dessions.
If there are no overcards on the flop, you can bet JJ on the flop, turn/river for value (as shown in Jesses stats) this is 50% of the time, the 2nd 50% were there is overcards, c-bet out there like you would with any other hand. If you get any calls, check it down, If anyone bets or raises fold. Obviously its a rougth guide, there are lots of variables.
I play JJ slow just flat call and see if a jack hits, i dont like being aggressive with this hand but if it was KK or AA i would shove all in not a problem just dont think JJ would hold up, not for me anyway.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Thanks for the information/ post jess! Printed it out just so I could have it around until I become familiar with some of the odds. Being a beginner this is nice and appreciate you taking the time to share it. Good Luck to All!
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 818
Good post Jess, alot of people will reconsider the value of JJ after this. Also like B1gfoot 's JJ-strategie, mine doesen't diver much from that. I hope that people don't get afraid of playing them, because win played right it can be a profitable hand.(like most hand's offcourse)
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
I never thought about it from this perspective before. But it is a nice way of thinking about it.
One thing though, note those stats are the chances of an over card coming out not your chances of winning the hand (which is higher than these numbers when heads up).
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
yes ^
That's correct. I mean - if there is 1 over card - then you have to figure the chances of your opponent having it etc.. Which is why you shouldn't play JJ/1010 like a monster if you're OOP.. You'll just get completely owned.
That chart also doesn't show the chances of flopping a set.. so obviously sometimes when there's an over card - you'll also have a set.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by jessthehuman: That chart also doesn't show the chances of flopping a set.. so obviously sometimes when there's an over card - you'll also have a set.
That is one point. Seeing an overcard doesn't mean we are behind, seeing only undercards doesn't mean we are ahead.
too bad though that now i won´t play my JJ´s ever again 
i'm gonna have to bookmark it and come back, as I really need to get to bed! 
