Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
Posted by onlinejoke: Some facts ???? 1; Gambling commissions regulations allow deal manipulation as long as that bias has some randomness EG a mug at 8% can be 50% if programming wants this but out come is still random.
2 I have contacted 3 gambling commissions asking them to introduce test of long number probability EG a proper honest equally random selection from the dealer THEY REFUSED
3 These tests that are carried out are done by TESTING HOUSES and none of them test for reflection of a real live non bias deal.
So much for your dependent testing bud
------------ Some facts ???? 1; Gambling commissions regulations allow deal manipulation as long as that bias has some randomness EG a mug at 8% can be 50% if programming wants this but out come is still random. So much for your dependent testing bud
"but out come is still random" then there is no problem if its still random, everybody gets bad beats, it happens, I don't like it to, I'd rather win every hand I play but thats not possible. I lost alot this month due to bad beats and also I've been maken alot of stupid mistakes wich cost me more money then it should have been. Overall online poker gives me a nice monthly bonus I've earned, sometimes it takes my money. Thats just the way it goes, people who still percist on sites being rigged, just stop playing. It isn't rigged online poker varies alot of live poker, I'm more succesfull in live poker then online, but you can't compare the 2 imo. When I first started online poker I lost everything just by the fact I took my live poker tactics to online poker, it just didn't work. Was frustrated but I took the time to evaluate my plays, and figure out where I'd go wrong or what I should have done. Now I'm doing alot better, except this month really seems a poor month for me, but thats mainly my own fault. People should stop blaming rng's or pokersites and look at themselfs how they can improve there play. A pokersite can't force you to go all in and go broke in 1 hand.
Im afraid your comments are a little off. If site odds are rigged how the hell do i bet if i put the guy on an 8% draw if that draw mightpay off at 40% 50% 70% of the time. Sure its still random but I sure as hell cant play a cash table with odds like that, Wheres the skill?
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
the skill in online poker with lower stakes is hard to find, but that doesn't mean the site is rigged. I would suggest out playing them, make sure they don't get the right price to call the draws. And how can you be sure its 40-70%, if its realy that much in % it happens then it wouldn't be hard to get proof and convince the rest it is rigged. Also online poker you play alot more hands then in live poker in 1 session, so it might look like it happens more, but I think if live poker would go as fast as online it would be about the same amount of suckouts you'll come across. Its more a state of mind I think, remembering the bad beats we get but don't remember wich on we given out. For me personnally its about the same, I take bad beats and I give huge suckouts. Even when I'm not getting the right odds, I know thats not skilled poker but sometimes I just can't ignore my gut feeling.
If you really think they're rigged, 1 advice, make it your lives work to prove it, get proof, sue them and get rich
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
Posted by SuperNoob:
Posted by onlinejoke: I can see why you guys love on line deals though it suits the 64. I. Q.
such a shame u cant even beat people with IQ 64 must really suck, huh ?????
can people with that low of an iq even turn on computers? I thought they where put in special homes, maybe the homes make them play online poker to make alot of profit by stupid plays? xD
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by onlinejoke: Hi Battle ,
Im afraid your comments are a little off. If site odds are rigged how the hell do i bet if i put the guy on an 8% draw if that draw mightpay off at 40% 50% 70% of the time. Sure its still random but I sure as hell cant play a cash table with odds like that, Wheres the skill?
yes give us all this proof because im pretty sure you cant. just because you can type it dont mean its really true
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by magatt966: I'd also suggest not to miss to insert lots of every three or four words
Good thinking !
------------
Posted by B1gfoot except we are getting rigtards instead of zombies
I'm fairly sure they're the same thing.
------------
Posted by rbdflyboy: Is there a place I can read up on this subject. I'm interested in the details, you've provided enough info to spark my interest.
Sounds like a top idea. I suggest just calling the FBI directly.
------------
Posted by onlinejoke: Math dont lie john boy
"You took the words right outta my mouth..."
------------
Posted by onlinejoke: Im afraid your comments are a little off. If site odds are rigged how the hell do i bet if i put the guy on an 8% draw if that draw mightpay off at 40% 50% 70% of the time. Sure its still random but I sure as hell cant play a cash table with odds like that, Wheres the skill?
see
------------
Posted by Flippedchips just because you can type it dont mean its really true
THIS
------------
Posted by onlinejoke: an 8% draw if that draw mightpay off at 40% 50% 70% of the time.
ALSO: isn't it obvious ?Just play all your 8% draws to the river !
I'm constantly searching out any and all aspects of online poker to increase my knowlrdge base and improve my game. I have learned this. MORE than the MAJORITY of online poker players lose for one reason or another. Now if you're a consistant winnier at online poker you're up in the elite percentile range. This is why it is recomended to cash out 60%-70% of winnings. A sort of treat yourself first. Play off the rest and if a downswing hits, and it should, losses won't be as sever. Having acquired this knowledge I see online poker differently now. If I do not want to be in the "more than" percentile I'd better have my "A game" on each and every time I play. That's,also, why I only play certain types of games in the holdem range and try as much as possible to avoid coin-flip situations. Another thing my friend taught me. "It's only a bad beat if your all in" I understand the math. I understand that it is a guideline,because the math can be correct and one still loses. They actually tell you in the Full Tilt television ad..."you can do everything right and still lose"...who hasn't been there before? Now win or lose if I know I played my A game that's all that matters. I guess that may be why I hang onto my NDB bankrolls longer than most people. I may not clear the bonuses, the limits I play are too low, and because now I know when to live to fight another day. One more thing, the only form of cheating in online poker that I know exists for sure is the use of poker bots. Evertthig else is speculation until there is specific proof to the contrary. This is why I asked about where to find more info on this FBI deal. If none exists then all this chatter is pure speculation of which I do not ascribe to.
Battle, I'm on the case and will force change. Have contacted several so called independent gaming commissions and none of them will close the loop hole in there rules that allows deal manipulation, Yes its allowed.
As we speak I am in contact with UK departments that control UK gaming commission. As long as these commissions allow dealer manipulation it is tough to expose these crooks but I will.
Also note that none of the on line sites test for long number probability which will clearly reflect any bias, Now why would they avoid these tests whole?????? You want proof site is rigged well take poker stars and log all all ins in any tourniment and the fish will win above the odds 9 from 10 times. Log all all ins heads up from flop. Also try this again heads up, 3 in ten hands should be won with a high card thats just basic math, Again try it out and theres your proof.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
^^
The thing is - if you actually took the time to research what you're talking about instead of just talking BS - you would see that people have analysed very large samples of data - and the findings support the RNGs being what they claim to be - not your BS conspiracy stuff.
jess where these test results im all ears, Just answer me this why do the regs allow deal manipulation and why do sites avoid proper testing of long number probability.
As for research I paid my way in life for 3 years playing cash and deep stack holdem Bet you never even played a deep stack multi day event.
------------ I gave a self test for proof Read on
------------ Do the self test. Heads up 3 from ten hands should be won with high card< Try this with play money but push all the way every hand. Also calculate pocket ks and aces pre and on the flop and do the math at the end , It wont add up.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by onlinejoke: jess where these test results im all ears, Just answer me this why do the regs allow deal manipulation and why do sites avoid proper testing of long number probability.
As for research I paid my way in life for 3 years playing cash and deep stack holdem Bet you never even played a deep stack multi day event.
------------ I gave a self test for proof Read on
------------ Do the self test. Heads up 3 from ten hands should be won with high card< Try this with play money but push all the way every hand. Also calculate pocket ks and aces pre and on the flop and do the math at the end , It wont add up.
I used to only play live before playing online I can't post the links because its against BRM rules. Try google. Its fun. I often play HU lotteries on PKR - for tickets to $30+ BI events - 2-seater tables and everyone is allin every hand. It all seems normal to me.
------------ oh - also - KK/AA preflop allin generally hold up for me. I rarely lose AA or and KK only as often as it should
------------ chances are you're just not as good at poker as you think you are. It's a hard thing to get your head around. but once you do - then you can start working on your leaks/etc and get better. So long as you keep thinking your play is fine and its just rigged against you - you'll never win online - online poker is about a million times harder than real life poker - the "fish" online are still people playing for HOURS EVERY DAY - READING POKER FORUMS/Strategy/etc - the game is a LOT harder to beat than many people realise. Add in 10% rake/fee that you need to beat as well and you're in for a tough battle.
------------ may I make a suggestion? Pay for some software like HEM or PT and once you get a good sample (say 100.000 hands) you can easily analyse the data you have for all the things you talk about. I'm sure - like everyone before you who has done this - you will find its fine.
You miss the point as well ??? heads up aa vs kk is about 5,000/1 and what i want to know is why does this happen more than 1 in 5000 hands.
On line there are far to many clashes and as i have said before 3 in ten hands HU should be won by a high card but again this does not happen WHY. Because the deals are ruled by a program creating a bias that does not comply with probability. These sites are allowed under operating rules to alter the deal outcome and also refuse to carry out any proper testing EG long number probability testing.
I will also say again i played and lived off poker for 3 years but a family stopped me traveling to the very few pproper games around the country. ( deep stack 2/3/4/5 day events
------------ cheating long number probability is a fact (rigged deals) If these site were not rigged they would test for reflection of long number probability.
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Spain
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 574
Posted by onlinejoke: I love poker jovickralj but i hate dealers that cheat the deals and ruin the game. Why should i put up with these sites cheating the deals and turning the game into a pure luck situation just to increase there rake by creating repetitive turn over .
No on line site is tested for expected outcome (long number probability) because they all know they will fail these tests. Open your eyes and join the cause for a real honest deal and a true game of poker.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by onlinejoke: You miss the point as well ??? heads up aa vs kk is about 5,000/1 and what i want to know is why does this happen more than 1 in 5000 hands.
NO you're missing the point. I have tracked hands and AA vs KK does NOT come up more often than it should - i busted from a big MTT a couple weeks ago ($50 buyin) with my KK vs AA - allin pre - and I must say I couldn't remember the time before it - seriously - it had been a long fucking time since I'd been that unlucky.
You see - I think you're just making s**t up. I DON'T believe you've actually used empirical data to reach your conclusions - I DO believe you've just read a bunch of BS websites and then made up some statistics in your head to make these posts.
I DO think you need (as I keep fucking saying) to actually use a hand tracker - gather a LARGE sample of hands and actually analyse this empirical data and see for yourself the information. I think you need to STOP making posts until you actually have this data- because without the data - you are just making s**t up.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by onlinejoke: You miss the point as well ??? heads up aa vs kk is about 5,000/1 and what i want to know is why does this happen more than 1 in 5000 hands.
NO you're missing the point. I have tracked hands and AA vs KK does NOT come up more often than it should - i busted from a big MTT a couple weeks ago ($50 buyin) with my KK vs AA - allin pre - and I must say I couldn't remember the time before it - seriously - it had been a long fucking time since I'd been that unlucky.
You see - I think you're just making s**t up. I DON'T believe you've actually used empirical data to reach your conclusions - I DO believe you've just read a bunch of BS websites and then made up some statistics in your head to make these posts.
I DO think you need (as I keep fucking saying) to actually use a hand tracker - gather a LARGE sample of hands and actually analyse this empirical data and see for yourself the information. I think you need to STOP making posts until you actually have this data- because without the data - you are just making s**t up.
if you keep replying, he'll continue making s**t up. cant reason with someone who already madeup his mind. best thing is ignore this thread and all the rigtard posts. dont know what they want to achieve posting here. they never use the forum, just make accounts to bash the sites
