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Why would you be a donk here? 4 way limped pot, you have button... Only problem is that this is tournament (early stage). I dont call that in tournament especially in early stage because you can get into trable with those cards. Imagine that someone had bigger flush or even A ! You would be in tough spot there since you would need to avoid and pairing the board and you dont want to be in such situation early in tournament. In cash game you would be donkey not to call cause you getting 4 to 1 on call and have hand that can hit you hard.
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Posted by jovicakralj: Why would you be a donk here? 4 way limped pot, you have button... Only problem is that this is tournament (early stage). I dont call that in tournament especially in early stage because you can get into trable with those cards. Imagine that someone had bigger flush or even A ! You would be in tough spot there since you would need to avoid and pairing the board and you dont want to be in such situation early in tournament. In cash game you would be donkey not to call cause you getting 4 to 1 on call and have hand that can hit you hard.
Exactly my thoughts...
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by : Why is folding pre poor play?
It's not just about his cards, it's also about position. He has position on the whole table. Seriously, bad play to fold here.
Wrong,in the early stage it is about cards,by far for the most part anyway. Sure its nice to see a cheap flop with position,but in multiway pots these hands can also become very expensive. Not really gonna talk about the hand anymore because everything's been said and its clear that there are 17383274892 different opinions about it,just saying,you statement that position is very important in the early phase is kinda wrong..
Joined: Nov '09
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Posted by jbrooksie: Wow an actual poker discussion
Yeah, I am disappointed too, shouldn't we be talking about breaking wind, or how much we hate "insert country here"? All this talk of poker strategy hard on the brain.
I can't fault you at all for making the call Doberhain in position and with limpers. I made a similar decision at a live game recently, where I was big blind with 7-2s, three limpers and button min raises with AA. Knowing limpers would call I called too hoping for flush, but flop gave me bottom pair, checked all around (!), turn was a 7 for two pairs, bet a small amount, called by Mr. AA and then river another 2 for full house. Bigger bet also called by Mr. AA and trash beats AA again. I think you both played fine in the hand, the odds were against somebody flopping a flush so he was protecting his hand, and you didn't want another diamond to come up. I love it!
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:Wrong,in the early stage it is about cards,by far for the most part anyway.
MTT is my strongest game - this is my current sharkscope graph from PKR. If you're miles ahead of me, then kudos. However - I started winning MTT when I started playing how I am describing and stopped playing how you describe here. Playing like that I basically broke even. When I opened up my ranges, started mixing it up, etc - my profits started rising a lot more.
------------ Up until around the 350 mark on that graph - I basically played the standard ABC/TAG style - premiums earlier on, slowly opening up, etc - basically waiting for hands, etc. I used to blind out a LOT. These days I generally either bust out or build a monster stack and cruise through to the FT. Crash out of one game, open another, no problem.
Joined: Apr '09
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You played well. You were leading and the books says to do the oposite most of your oponents are doing. In this case, it means to go loose aggressive when everybody is going extremely tight. I would have done exactly the same. And look, even if you had lost the hand, if your oponent have had a full house at the river, for instance, i would say you would have made it nice the same way i did.
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by BeMyATMplz:Wrong,in the early stage it is about cards,by far for the most part anyway.
MTT is my strongest game - this is my current sharkscope graph from PKR. If you're miles ahead of me, then kudos. However - I started winning MTT when I started playing how I am describing and stopped playing how you describe here. Playing like that I basically broke even. When I opened up my ranges, started mixing it up, etc - my profits started rising a lot more.
------------ Up until around the 350 mark on that graph - I basically played the standard ABC/TAG style - premiums earlier on, slowly opening up, etc - basically waiting for hands, etc. I used to blind out a LOT. These days I generally either bust out or build a monster stack and cruise through to the FT. Crash out of one game, open another, no problem.
PKR is a different thing,because it plays different than other sites - slower gameplay = less hands per blindlevel,so in that case I'd say your strategy is good and its understandable you'd blind out with the ABC strat there wouldve played the 85s hand there as well.
I'm multi-grinding 45+ mans and MTTs on stars for a few weeks now and with many tables open I'm using a very basic strategy at the beginning with advanced steal/resteal/shoving etc. strategy later on,it works for me so in that case it'd seem like an easy fold to me personally there.
And no,I'm not miles ahead of you,but I'm playing poker overall for 4 1/2 months only so far and lower buy ins as well I guess
Joined: Mar '11
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Posted by jessthehuman: This just a freeroll or something ?
It was a Phase1 Sng. Buy In 1 Dollar. Good to get comfortable with the software.
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Posted by Fakiry: it means to go loose aggressive when everybody is going extremely tight.
That sounds a bit like Doyle Brunson. Really like that idea and can confirm it works out. But one has to measure the table again and again and look for the right spots, for not to get trapped at the wrong feet
------------ My house, my car, my jet, my babes :
Maybe that´s my bronze pass for the bad boys club, hehe. It covers just the past action of FT and PS and I went a bit lazy with the house keeping for the database, because the postgres is annoying slow at my system. Thought about implementing a raid compound, not sure whether this would speed it up much. Also I am not sure why the graph flats out inbetween and at the end. I am still new with PT and cannot find the time to fight me through the docs.
I don't know why, but I suspect that theres something not right about this..
My suspicion is that the OP didn't actually flop a flush and has doctored the hand history.
Everything about that hand suggests the player who flopped the set of 4s shoved all in to protect his hand against anyone on a flush draw, and the OP in fact called on the flush draw and hit the Q on the river to complete the flush. Given how many players were in the pot pre flop, with three diamonds on the board, its reasonable to expect that there would be another player with a higher diamond in his hand, and therefore would have come along for the ride and called to hit another diamond.
The comments from the other player also suggests that is the case. He is berating the OP for betting with nothing more than 8 high then calls him a donk for calling the all in with nothing..
Come on OP, admit it, you've done what we've all done. Gambled on the flush draw against all the odds and sucked out..
No need to change the HH.. its obvious what you did..
Joined: Mar '11
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Posted by fcumred: No need to change the HH.. its obvious what you did..
Do I have to leave any comments on such a bs ??? ROTFL Go die in a corner man
------------ [QUOTE Do I have to leave any comments on such a bs ??? [/QUOTE]
Yes I have to, because there´s no reason to let me call a cheater. So let me say this:
1. He didn´t call me a donk, take the time to read accurate then
2. Of course did he put me on a flush draw, if he would have supposed that I have a made flush, he wouldn´ t have raised to All In
3. There are more important things to do as to fake a hand history and discuss it afterwards in a public forum. If I had any interests in doing so, I would have constructed Royal Flush against Quads and not Set against Babyflush
4. This "player" (or whatever...) might have been drunken or is just a natural dummy in my honest opinion. That´s my impression
5. Yes I doctored some at the hand history - I let out numerous other offendings of this person, including the promiise to look after me...
I contacted PKR-Support and asked for a video proof of this hand. Unfortunately it is not possible. But because I want the proof, the agent promised me to check what they can do about and support will contact me by eMail. So I am happy awaiting things to come - fcumred ... (so if I am right hoopy1967 might be a friend of yours, if so just send my kind regards, lol) otherwise just piss off
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what is this? Tread for showing our graphs? Wait, I will make 3k tonight and post my graph tomorrow here No kidding now, there are different styles of play that can be profitable. I have huge respect here for Jess and bemyatm (I played against him one tourney and can tell you he is good), also lot of respect for doomdy and few other members when it comes to MTT. I had some success playing MTT myself and I can tell that my game is similar to bemyatms but Im sure that there is nothing wrong with Jesses game. Tke for example pros: Helmuth is trapy player that plays only good hands and he have 11 WSOP bracelets- Neagranu is loose player who likes to see flop with 35 suited and other stuff and he is second on all time tournament money list (he was first for long time)
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I have the biggest respect of the regulars here - I am far away from playing at their level - but and thats it - there are moments I just want to leave a funny mark
I posted this thread with the intention to improve and to discuss the good and bad things about this hand.
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Posted by Doberhain: I have the biggest respect of the regulars here - I am far away from playing at their level - but and thats it - there are moments I just want to leave a funny mark
I posted this thread with the intention to improve and to discuss the good and bad things about this hand.
Have to correct myself lol. Sorry for my bad english: Of I course I have got the biggest respect for the regulars here, not the opposite. I only played a few of them until now, how about a mobster tourney, would be fun.
Well played... Limp pot, so if you decide to see the flop you have to follow through when you hit a flush on the flop. You either double up or lose a big chunk of your stack... That's small stakes poker!
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hoopy1967: u r a fkin muppet m8 hoopy1967: u need to go learn poker hoopy1967: ya kin tool Doberhain: remember that lol Doberhain laughs out loud. hoopy1967: 85 nothing showing for u and u call an all in bet ya plik hoopy1967: remember wat? Doberhain: need any books? how about knigge? hoopy1967: ur a fkin plik hoopy1967: u raise with 8 5 go learn to play poker Doberhain acknowledges WolfMessing had a nice hand. hoopy1967: come qwith me head to head il rip u apart ya tool ... hoopy1967: i take it thats a no ya chicken faced fkr Doberhain does his best dancing ever. Doberhain: cool speach bro
[/QUOTE]
I absolutely love how vocal he is about being tilt after the hand lol. Classic.
As played, prolly shoulda folded pre, I MIGHT consider raising this in CO IF I know SB/BB are nitty, but otherwise it's definately a hand you should be folding unless you're getting very juicy odds to call and see a multi-way flop.
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Posted by Doberhain: I was bigstack at the button with 3190 chips at a mostly loose table and blinds were 20/40. My holecards were 8d 5d. Nothing to get rich with, but because there were so many limpers in front of me I decided to buy a cheap look at the flop and so I just called 40... now imagine this ...
ZaFRiLLa posts small blind (20) mirari88 posts big blind (40) Dealing Cards
Kmmoose folds mogsley did not respond in time and is folded mogsley folds therock75 calls 40 jkkok folds WolfMessing calls 40 Doberhain calls 40 ZaFRiLLa calls 40 mirari88 checks
--> Pot sizes: 240 --> Dealing Flop [4 d][9 d][K d] (FLOPPED A FLUSH HERE)
--> Doberhain calls 1,420 --> Pot sizes: 3,080 --> Doberhain shows [8 d][5 d] --> hoopy1967 shows [4 c][4 h] --> Dealing Turn [6 h] --> Pot sizes: 3,080 --> Dealing River [Q d] --> Pot sizes: 3,080 --> hoopy1967 has Three of a Kind: 4s --> Doberhain has Flush, King high --> Doberhain wins 3,080 with: Flush, King high
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When the flop was checked to me I overbet the pot with 2 bb to protect my hand against a possible draw with a higher diamond or a straight draw. I did not expect someone would dare to call or even reraise such a bet on this flop!
Everyone plays his own chips I use to say. So I got lucky villain didn't make a Fullhouse. After he left the table he jumped in squares I guess. For your enjoyment a little episode out of the following:
hoopy1967: u r a fkin muppet m8 hoopy1967: u need to go learn poker hoopy1967: ya kin tool Doberhain: remember that lol Doberhain laughs out loud. hoopy1967: 85 nothing showing for u and u call an all in bet ya plik hoopy1967: remember wat? Doberhain: need any books? how about knigge? hoopy1967: ur a fkin plik hoopy1967: u raise with 8 5 go learn to play poker Doberhain acknowledges WolfMessing had a nice hand. hoopy1967: come qwith me head to head il rip u apart ya tool ... hoopy1967: i take it thats a no ya chicken faced fkr Doberhain does his best dancing ever. Doberhain: cool speach bro
Joined: Dec '09
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wp easy call pre flop with all they limpers best time to get in with a hand like yours i think, also no way im worried about the bigger flush god if i folded everytime i could be worried about the bigger flush feck knows how many pots i would of gave away. I am not saying never do it but most times you will be good.
As for the idiot well all you can do is /chuckle /wink /smile
just read some of the other posts and if i was play lots of tables good chance i would not play the hand but playing the hand in that spot is not bad at all in my eyes
! You would be in tough spot there since you would need to avoid 
Go die in a corner man
Wait, I will make 3k tonight and post my graph tomorrow here 
