Joined: Aug '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 16
Just decided to join the 888poker site, not sure yet what the standard is yet, only played 3 tournies, but small cashes in 2 of em.
I have the impression up to now that the level of poker isnt that hi, I may be wrong, but I had a reasonable hand pocket Qs on ft 8 runners left I was in 5th with 35k+ so I was looking at shoving all my chips in, but I decided to see the flop and put a raise of 4k to see what I was up against pre flop, one flat call and 9d 4c 3h rainbow flop and holding top pair to the board, I decided to shove all my chips in was called and he showed a rag A with 5 kicker, looking good ye no he hit A on river.
Looking back over the hand was the pre flop raise to low or even a shove would have been a better move, Qs are always a difficult made hand to play and if I had played the shove pre flop, I am not sure if he would have called, he probably would from the way the table was playing, again not sure if I played it bad or he just hit lucky.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by simon99: Just decided to join the 888poker site, not sure yet what the standard is yet, only played 3 tournies, but small cashes in 2 of em.
I have the impression up to now that the level of poker isnt that hi, I may be wrong, but I had a reasonable hand pocket Qs on ft 8 runners left I was in 5th with 35k+ so I was looking at shoving all my chips in, but I decided to see the flop and put a raise of 4k to see what I was up against pre flop, one flat call and 9d 4c 3h rainbow flop and holding top pair to the board, I decided to shove all my chips in was called and he showed a rag A with 5 kicker, looking good ye no he hit A on river.
Looking back over the hand was the pre flop raise to low or even a shove would have been a better move, Qs are always a difficult made hand to play and if I had played the shove pre flop, I am not sure if he would have called, he probably would from the way the table was playing, again not sure if I played it bad or he just hit lucky.
Yeah, queens are a pretty hard hand to play. It's really hard to say if you're raise was good or not, you didn't mention what the blinds were. Being it's a FT of an MTT, usually players don't have much more than 20 BB left, since you were 5th I'll guess you had about 15-20. Also, what position were you in the hand? If you're in ep first in, raise it up and re-evaluate if someone re-raises.Prolly not folding to a re-raise though unless you know opponents a total nit. If you're LP and it's unopened, I'd lean more towards shoving as it'll discourage the blinds from calling with anything but a premium hand.
Well, I think that QQ vs. most of the players at FT of any tournament is easy bet/broke pre flop. If you want to play for the 1st place you can't play like b/f or b/c with queens on FT (even when someone is playing as tight as 6/6 or 8/7 he can't play that tight on FT). Open shove is IMO bad when you play vs. thinking players. For some fish that made it to the FT open shove may look weak, but if you open shove for example vs. me and I see that you know how to play poker then your shove looks strong, but I won't say that you'll have KK+ there, because when you open shove that hand it's not the best option here (sure, +EV, but it would be better to just open raise it and hope for some call or two), because when you shove you won't get called with for example A5 like in your hand.
I think you played it well, when you open shove you'll probably get called by tight players only with monsters (I think they will call JJ very rarely, so you are facing QQ+ and AK - coinflip or you are way behind). Only when you have some short stacks behind you then you could open shove it, as short will call with wide range, because he has to call with wide range
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
I think you played that fine although depending on the blinds and position I very likely would've shoved. Which brings me to this question for loose kiddie: I think I understand your position there but I still feel it's a decent idea to shove (and I'm no expert so I'm hoping for some advice). Shoving means you'll likely only be going up against 1 player at least with +ev and drastically improving your position. It'll also make sure (I think) no one will call you with crap like A5 (speculation of course).
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Arithmajik: I think you played that fine although depending on the blinds and position I very likely would've shoved. Which brings me to this question for loose kiddie: I think I understand your position there but I still feel it's a decent idea to shove (and I'm no expert so I'm hoping for some advice). Shoving means you'll likely only be going up against 1 player at least with +ev and drastically improving your position. It'll also make sure (I think) no one will call you with crap like A5 (speculation of course).
+1, the thing with MTT and even STT strat is, when you're shoving, you really don't want ANY callers, let alone letting "2 or 3 players in".
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by LooseKiddie: then your shove looks strong, but I won't say that you'll have KK+ there, because when you open shove that hand it's not the best option here (sure, +EV, but it would be better to just open raise it and hope for some call or two)
Personally, I disagree, I love open-shoving ~20bb with KK/AA from EP, people don't really expect it, they put you on hands like AQ/AK and call off with 1010+ and AQ+ and if the table folds, on a FT the blinds + antes are always worth picking up anyway.
Regarding the QQ, if I have less than 20bb I will ALWAYS open-shove queens, from any position. If I have 10 or less bb, I'll get them in no matter what the action was before me. If I have 15-20 in LP and there's already been lots of action from EP then I might lay them down and wait for another spot.
------------ Also, never underestimate your chances of getting called light when open-shoving big hands (QQ+), people see that their "allin" button lights up, they see two picture cards (maybe soooted) and they just love clicking that button, can't help it some of them..
Whereas the same people, may also flat a raise, but then lay the same hand down on the flop unless they hit it hard.
But weak players love calling allins with medium pps, any two pictures, etc - it means they don't have to play post flop, they can just click the button and cross their fingers.
So .. yeah, open shoving monsters isn't a bad option, particularly when you consider so many people try and trap with AA/KK on the FT, mix it up anyway..
Edited by jessthehuman (14 August 2011 @ 06:50 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by jbrooksie: @jessthehuman, you are gradually becoming the resident MTT coach.
Haha - yeah, I'm actually only playing cash atm, won't have the time for MTT sessions for another couple weeks unfortunately, been tearing up the 50c/$1 and $1/$2 tables at P.K.R though, so no complaints playing cash.. Also, my rake back will go through the roof this month, currently raking around $100-$250 per day :O
