Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
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Hi all, pretty sure the name of this thread will catch your attention! This hand caused the other player, someone who is very aggro and who I normally see raping the tables on 888 at NL100 and up, to call me “stupid mother**ker donkey”. Now, normally I wouldn’t flat call this hand in early position, but this table had been very quiet with nobody blasting the bets across, and with one other flat caller already in I took a chance. Aggro villain on sb raised to $5, bb called so I called to see a flop, which gave me open ended straight, 2 for the nuts and 6 for second nuts, as long as a flush board doesn’t appear. My feeling with the flop bet was AK or AQ building the pot against me flushing, so I called. The turn bet was large, and admittedly not easy to make, and this is where I would like your opinion: would you have called and why? I called, the sweet 6 came down, he bet 80% of pot and I shoved.
Joined: Feb '11
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Just fold preflop. 53s is just not good enough,especially in early position,and especially when you say someone was aggro. Especially after the SBs isoraise,why do you call when you know he's "crushing the tables",as in,he's a reasonable player?
As for the postflop play,flopcall was ok with double gutshot + backdoor flushdraw given the pot odds. Turn is a pretty easy fold - even if you calculate with implied odds (as in,we calculate odds compared to if we hit,we def. stack off) it's a fold. You hit your straight draw 1 in 6 times,that's 16.66% equity to win the hand. To call the given bet,the effective stacks would have to be about $175 given the $29 bet,you have only $111 behind however. You can also not expect to stack off ALL the time,even after he barrel'd twice doesnt mean he will not give up on a blank river sometimes,which makes it irrelevant anyways.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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^ this
It wasn't the most terrible call, as it's obviously a very disguised hand so implied odds are definitely in favour of stacking off any decent made hand, like a set.. But still, I think it's probably not a profitable long-term call.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
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I agree, but wanted some opinions anyways. I was off my game and normally wouldn't have called with those cards in early position, and along with the same fuzzy thinking I called the turn which I think was my biggest mistake in that hand. I will now change my avatar for the next 24 hours. hee-haw-hee-haw
Joined: Oct '08
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early or late position.....does it really matter? you were the last one to call before the initial raiser, if there was a reraise. if you completely miss the board > easy fold, just lost a couple blinds. its cashgame and you cant play by the book. imo all the monster startinghands arent that profitable as this one for example. yea ok "in the long run" probably, but also only a few blinds most of the time, and if your unlucky then some minipockets like his 44 beat your aces, kings or whatever. you know, im not sayin to play this marginal hands all the time in utg...its just like you mentioned once in another thread "if you have the feeling to play a certain hand, then do it" to be honest, im not sure if i would have called the turn - depends on my mood lol and if im in the plus for the day. i think nothing wrong to take some risk now and then, exspecially in cashgames.
Joined: Feb '11
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Posted by T3ddyKGB: early or late position.....does it really matter?
It matters alot. 53s is a sole drawing hand and will,if you get a board to even continue a hand (flush or straightdraw),be a little difficult to play. If you limp UTG you're OOP against everyone except the blinds. Being in position is essential when playing drawing hands. Not just because in position you can save money when drawing,but you can also extract value off the opponent more easily.
I have to agree with BeMyATMplz and Jess... I'm the kind of player that likes to see flops too. But still, on that board, it's obvious that you're not against some kind of air C-bet... So You might have only 4 outs actually if you're against a flush draw and a pair for example, wich sucks.
The call on the flop was okay... The call pre flop and on the turn was horrible in my opinion, especially in cash games. But in the end, you were right to do it in this particular hand so who cares, the BRM member won You might also have been able to rep a flush if it came but still very risky play/board.
Edited by TheMachineQC (17 August 2011 @ 17:10 GMT)
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by T3ddyKGB: early or late position.....does it really matter?
It matters alot. 53s is a sole drawing hand and will,if you get a board to even continue a hand (flush or straightdraw),be a little difficult to play. If you limp UTG you're OOP against everyone except the blinds. Being in position is essential when playing drawing hands. Not just because in position you can save money when drawing,but you can also extract value off the opponent more easily.
well your right. but in "this" scenario it doesnt really matter even if the aggro player and mahdorf change position. he, as aggro, would have bet on flop the $9 anyways and mahdrof would have called aswell - the outcome is the same, i doubt he would have folded or even reraised him in position. he decided to play that hand... sometimes you have to play "unorthodox" and not always by the book. doing unpredictable things. oh well...everoyne plays diff poker.
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Posted by TheMachineQC:
The call on the flop was okay... The call pre flop and on the turn was horrible in my opinion, especially in cash games.
when if not in cashgames ? i think doing that in a mtt would be horrible.
Forgot to ask, Mahdrof, what would you have done if that 6 or 2 was the 6 of clubs, after putting 45$ in the pot? That would be a very tough decision if the other player shoves, it's actually very possible that he has a flush draw in that same situation. Personally, after calling that bet on the turn, I would definetly never fold if any 2 or 6 came on the river because I don't like dead money. What about you?
EDIT: I agree, the play is not better in MTT. But I said that because usually in MTT we don't risk more than 20$ and you're gonna have to risk your chips at some point... And it depends on the stack sizes also. In cash games, you can always pick your spots.
Edited by TheMachineQC (17 August 2011 @ 17:18 GMT)
Joined: Feb '11
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Yeah agree with above about it being not profitable over the long term, but I'd say justified given the scenario due to the implied odds and just to vary up your game and stay unpredictable. In any case it payed and you tilted someone, good job. What happened to your profile pic?
Joined: Dec '09
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suited 53 im not going to play alot but as teddy says its good to mix it up sometimes in a cash game, but if your going to play it i would of prob raised pre as i just dont like to limp. If you get reraised easy fold, on the flop its a easy call see what happens on the turn but as said above call on the turn is horrible. if a heart came down well then i would call but your left hoping for a miracle and its to much of your stack for hoping. Thats my opinion but i agree with ATM to i just dont mind to play the odd funny cards i hate the limp with them all the same
Joined: Mar '09
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I call hands like that some times (when the bet is reasonable) cause it cant be premium hands all the time. But after the flop i wouldnt have called chasing that. And im not talking about the turn You got lucky there
Yeah Flippedchips I was thinking the same at start. I would definetly not limp such a weak hand in EP. BUT, in that particular situation, since he played very passive post flop, it made the pot smaller and that's the reason why he saw that river (very bad odds on the turn tough )... But I would definetly prefer a raise and a big move post flop for sure, that would've justified seeing that river!
The other guy played his 4's almost perfectly, pretty sad for him.
Edited by TheMachineQC (17 August 2011 @ 19:12 GMT)
Joined: Nov '09
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Okay, I have done my 24 hours in solitary confinement with the donkey ears on, back to good ol' crazy eyes w/ bad teeth. Appreciate all of the feedback and opinions, as well as the funny vid from B1gfoot. I thought my odds of hitting an open ender were better than they were, and after viewing the posts yesterday I looked them up, so definitely learned something there. A lot of good information was posted, and I definitely agree with TeddyKGB on a number of things for when you play cash games and are hunting for big pots. GL all!
You might also have been able to rep a flush if it came but still very risky play/board.
i just dont mind to play the odd funny cards i hate the limp with them all the same
