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   0   
i have to say bemyatmpls is right, but i get your point aswell.
poker is a skill game - yes (the luck factor is not to underestimate tho in my opinion) but if your on a table with full of donks, fishes or whatever you like to call them, even the so hopefully called "longrun" wont help you.
lets say your on a 9/9 table - all of them donks. should be easy eh but if your facing every single hand 3-4 players who are not afraid to call raises with any hand it turns into a lottery Big Smile
on top of that every now and then one of them try to bully you out of the pot - his hand range is like 27s-AA lol. that sometimes gives you headache...bluffing? or did one of them hit this time?
good [email protected] Tongue

     
   0   
Nice debate going on here. have to say both ( islandjack and bemyatmplz) make a good point but as i see it the difference is in bankroll volume. strategically everything bemyatmplz says makes sense except in small bankrolls such as my own. i dont have unlimited funds and i dont play this professionally so i cannot afford big losses against that kind of "roll dices" play. if i get donked out 50 tourneys in a row that means im done, no matter how well i played and that.. well.. in a word: Sucks!. losing to good play its one thing but like so u do have to pray to poker gods to help u out till u can play higher limits. should be more about your skill shouldn't it?!

     
   0   
I have to say, having watched the sudden influx of spanish players on Pokerstars, I'll take a table of russians anyday of the week, because spanish players make Russians look like Phil Hellmuth, Ivey and Durrrr all rolled into one.

All this idea that because there are more Russians, then they will have more donks is nonsense. Spain isn't 1/10th of the size of Russia, and they have more idiotic players than any country I've ever seen on any poker site in the 5 years I've been playing online poker.

I used to hate Russians playing on pokerstars, but now, I'll take a whole MTT of russians over 3-4 spaniards at my table any day of the week..

     
   0   
lol dont know about that, in the past i thought the germans were solid but these days they seem to have went nuts, but the bain of my poker days just now are canadians lol. I have came to realise that most countries are full of donks with alot of good players, i did a thread on this a while ago i just think everyone is nuts now. I dont take anyone for an idiot because of there country but when i get donked from somewhere and look where they are from i just think another ________ donk bastard Big Smile not that i hold anything against that country of people it just makes me feel better at the time Big Smile

     
   0   
I don't want to say that I hate russians. There are a few good players. I only hate thisone who play in sitngoes together. last week I played a sitngo (9 players) and there were also 3 russians. I think it was a bit strange that this 3 players finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd. the rest of us we saw that they knew what cards held each other. perfect game Angry

     
   0   
Posted by bobbyneight:
I think it was a bit strange that this 3 players finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd.


lol,this can be just luck just as likely as collusion.
Even if they knew all of each others hole cards it's very very unlikely they will all top 3.
Only solution obv is you can report these people and the site will eventually ban them if there was shady stuff going on

     
   0   
The problem with the russians is that they play in grop only using online poker room software and the companies allow them to do that. They write in russian instead of english so only they can understand, and that gives them some advantage in relationto other players. If i start writing portuguese, i might be expelt from the room, but nothing happens to them...

     
   0   
Not hard at all for players to collude in games.
By using online chat programs like msn messenger and yahoo its piece of cake.
And the game that they hit most of course is the sng.

Im not talking about russians now im talking about collusion in general Smile

     
   0   
Posted by Flippedchips:
lol dont know about that, in the past i thought the germans were solid but these days they seem to have went nuts, but the bain of my poker days just now are canadians lol. I have came to realise that most countries are full of donks with alot of good players, i did a thread on this a while ago i just think everyone is nuts now. I dont take anyone for an idiot because of there country but when i get donked from somewhere and look where they are from i just think another ________ donk bastard Big Smile not that i hold anything against that country of people it just makes me feel better at the time Big Smile



Very valid point.
I was a bit harsh on the Russians in my first reply, but it is a fact that the crazies have been surfacing from all over lately.
Like you say, I´ve seen some crazy Canadians, the Germans seem to be losing their cool, et. Big Smile

My first guess would be the literature that abounds now advising agressive play, the agressive learning videos, the increasing number of players who make this necessary as well in order to counter the "over-bluffing" going on...


Funny, but it might be the right time soon for the intelligent game again, because as we all know, you need to play "differently" from the rest to make a killing. ...kind of... Cool

     
   +1   
How is it not nice to have bluffy russians on your table?
You can get max. value off your hands that way.

No,tournaments with a loose game-flow are exactly what you want.
Not using your brain? lol,in poker you always have to use your brain.
You can always think in ranges,how you can get max. value postflop and stuff like this.
Regardless that I'm always playing several tables and then usually dont pick up reads like peoples betting-lines,I still play based on peoples stats. Even this give syou the possibility of deep thinking,if you have time to pick up "proper" reads like peoples betting patterns you can get into even more deep thinking. So the argument that it's impossible to use your brain is not valid.

What if you are carddead for an hour?
First off having a whole hour of getting your mentioned hands is very unlikely. It will eventually happen sometimes,but it's not likely.
What you do when it happens?
First off,you dont need a great hand to open hands in MTTs. And if people are looser than the usual players,you can play more hands and you gotta open up your ranges. This is why hand charts or s**t like this are bad. You always have to adjust to the situation and the opponent,you can't just play like what a piece of paper says.
2nd of all,as I mentioned above,poker is a game of longterm success,not shortterm.
You can play all day and not get any so called playable hand,in theory at least.
However all this time will even out with you getting monsters at a later point,and that's where you'll get max. value from those people.
This is where volume comes into effect. Obv. there will be a phase you get sucked out 20 times in a row by a donkey russian or a donkey from whatever country,but at the same time if you are a winning player,you will get more in EV in the future than what you've lost through all those suckouts.

Read more: http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...



Very good comment or tutorial BeMyATMplz Smile I had few experience like you said. Their bad play attack our psychic make us upset then play bad.

     
   0   
Just played in a freeroll had 3 russian players on my table, they played like donks all in but were dominating. Thats it scrapping all i've learned back to donk style cause thats all i've seen win

     
   0   
i find it interesting,that we complain about russians,but on party poker when america banned poker,there seamed tobe russian players come from no where to nearly every table being full of russians,a little strange,whats even weirder is thet the russian government has banned online poker for russians,yet they everywhere.i emailed this to party poker,there responce,NOTHING.ten emails sent,no responce,sent another email about something else,responded straight away to that question,strange,another email about it,no responce,finally go onto live chat,was going well till i asked about russians being banned,guess what,live chat was disconnected from server.still no answer.so,went to log into party poker,guess what,account suspended pending investigation.what a joke.emailed askin why account suspended,there answer,nothing that was a week ago,still locked out,still no answers,after fulltilts display of crap,i think party poker are scamming people.

     
   0   
Posted by arsenej1:
heres the worlds population 2011...

Rank Countries Amount Date
# 1 China: 1,336,718,015 2011
# 2 India: 1,189,172,906 2011
# 4 United States: 313,232,044 2011
# 5 Indonesia: 245,613,043 2011
# 6 Brazil: 203,429,773 2011
# 7 Pakistan: 187,342,721 2011
# 8 Bangladesh: 158,570,535 2011
# 9 Nigeria: 155,215,573 2011
# 10 Russia: 138,739,892 2011
# 11 Japan: 126,475,664 2011
# 12 Mexico: 113,724,226 2011
# 13 Philippines: 101,833,938 2011
# 14 Ethiopia: 90,873,739 2011
# 15 Vietnam: 90,549,390 2011
# 16 Egypt: 82,079,636 2011
# 17 Germany: 81,471,834 2011
# 18 Turkey: 78,785,548 2011
# 19 Iran: 77,891,220 2011
# 20 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 71,712,867 2011
# 21 Thailand: 66,720,153 2011
# 22 France: 65,102,719 2011
# 23 United Kingdom: 62,698,362 2011
# 24 Italy: 61,016,804 2011
# 25 Burma: 53,999,804 2011
# 26 South Africa: 49,004,031 2011
# 27 Korea, South: 48,754,657 2011
# 28 Spain: 46,754,784 2011
# 29 Ukraine: 45,134,707 2011
# 30 Sudan: 45,047,502 2011
# 31 Colombia: 44,725,543 2011
# 32 Tanzania: 42,746,620 2011
# 33 Argentina: 41,769,726 2011
# 34 Kenya: 41,070,934 2011
# 35 Poland: 38,441,588 2011
# 36 Algeria: 34,994,937 2011
# 37 Uganda: 34,612,250 2011
# 38 Canada: 34,030,589 2011
# 39 Morocco: 31,968,361 2011
# 40 Iraq: 30,399,572 2011
# 41 Afghanistan: 29,835,392 2011
# 42 Nepal: 29,391,883 2011
# 43 Peru: 29,248,943 2011
# 44 Malaysia: 28,728,607 2011
# 45 Uzbekistan: 28,128,600 2011
# 46 Venezuela: 27,635,743 2011
# 47 Saudi Arabia: 26,131,703 2011
# 48 Ghana: 24,791,073 2011
# 49 Korea, North: 24,457,492 2011
# 50 Yemen: 24,133,492 2011
# 51 Taiwan: 23,071,779 2011
# 52 Mozambique: 22,948,858 2011
# 53 Madagascar: 21,926,221 2011
# 54 Romania: 21,904,551 2011
# 55 Australia: 21,766,711 2011
# 56 C?d'Ivoire: 21,504,162 2011
# 57 Sri Lanka: 21,283,913 2011
# 58 Syria: 19,747,586 2008
# 59 Cameroon: 19,711,291 2011
# 60 Chile: 16,888,760 2011
# 61 Netherlands: 16,847,007 2011
# 62 Burkina Faso: 16,751,455 2011
# 63 Niger: 16,468,886 2011
# 64 Malawi: 15,879,252 2011
# 65 Kazakhstan: 15,522,373 2011
# 66 Ecuador: 15,007,343 2011
# 67 Cambodia: 14,701,717 2011
# 68 Mali: 14,159,904 2011
# 69 Zambia: 13,881,336 2011
# 70 Guatemala: 13,824,463 2011
# 71 Angola: 13,338,541 2011
# 72 Senegal: 12,643,799 2011
# 73 Zimbabwe: 12,084,304 2011
# 74 Rwanda: 11,370,425 2011
# 75 Cuba: 11,087,330 2011
# 76 Portugal: 10,760,305 2011
# 77 Greece: 10,760,136 2011
# 78 Chad: 10,758,945 2011
# 79 Tunisia: 10,629,186 2011
# 80 Guinea: 10,601,009 2011
# 81 Belgium: 10,431,477 2011
# 82 Burundi: 10,216,190 2011
# 83 Czech Republic: 10,190,213 2011
# 84 Bolivia: 10,118,683 2011
# 85 Hungary: 9,976,062 2011
# 86 Dominican Republic: 9,956,648 2011
# 87 Somalia: 9,925,640 2011
# 88 Haiti: 9,719,932 2011
# 89 Belarus: 9,577,552 2011
# 90 Benin: 9,325,032 2011
# 91 Sweden: 9,088,728 2011
# 92 Azerbaijan: 8,372,373 2011
# 93 Austria: 8,217,280 2011
# 94 Honduras: 8,143,564 2011
# 95 Switzerland: 7,639,961 2011
# 96 Tajikistan: 7,627,200 2011
# 97 Israel: 7,473,052 2009
# 98 Serbia and Montenegro: 7,310,555 2011
# 99 Hong Kong: 7,122,508 2011
# 100 Bulgaria: 7,093,635 2011
# 101 Togo: 6,771,993 2011
# 102 Libya: 6,597,960 2011
# 103 Jordan: 6,508,271 2011
# 104 Laos: 6,477,211 2011
# 105 Paraguay: 6,459,058 2011
# 106 Papua New Guinea: 6,187,591 2011
# 107 El Salvador: 6,071,774 2011
# 108 Eritrea: 5,939,484 2011
# 109 Nicaragua: 5,666,301 2011
# 110 Kyrgyzstan: 5,587,443 2011
# 111 Denmark: 5,529,888 2011
# 112 Slovakia: 5,477,038 2011
# 113 Sierra Leone: 5,363,669 2011
# 114 Finland: 5,259,250 2011
# 115 United Arab Emirates: 5,148,664 2011
# 116 Turkmenistan: 4,997,503 2011
# 117 Central African Republic: 4,950,027 2011
# 118 Singapore: 4,740,737 2011
# 119 Norway: 4,691,849 2011
# 120 Ireland: 4,670,976 2011
# 121 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 4,622,163 2011
# 122 Georgia: 4,585,874 2011
# 123 Costa Rica: 4,576,562 2011
# 124 Croatia: 4,483,804 2011
# 125 Moldova: 4,314,377 2011
# 126 New Zealand: 4,290,347 2011
# 127 Congo, Republic of the: 4,243,929 2011
# 128 Lebanon: 4,143,101 2011
# 129 Puerto Rico: 3,989,133 2011
# 130 Liberia: 3,786,764 2011
# 131 Lithuania: 3,535,547 2011
# 132 Panama: 3,460,462 2011
# 133 Uruguay: 3,308,535 2011
# 134 Mauritania: 3,281,634 2011
# 135 Mongolia: 3,133,318 2011
# 136 Oman: 3,027,959 2011
# 137 Albania: 2,994,667 2011
# 138 Armenia: 2,967,975 2011
# 139 Jamaica: 2,868,380 2011
# 140 Kuwait: 2,595,628 2011
# 141 West Bank: 2,407,681 2008
# 142 Latvia: 2,204,708 2011
# 143 Namibia: 2,147,585 2011
# 144 Macedonia, Republic of: 2,077,328 2011
# 145 Botswana: 2,065,398 2011
# 146 Slovenia: 2,000,092 2011
# 147 Lesotho: 1,924,886 2011
# 148 Gambia, The: 1,797,860 2011
# 149 Guinea-Bissau: 1,596,677 2011
# 150 Gabon: 1,576,665 2011
# 151 Gaza Strip: 1,500,202 2008
# 152 Swaziland: 1,370,424 2011
# 153 Mauritius: 1,303,717 2011
# 154 Estonia: 1,282,963 2011
# 155 Trinidad and Tobago: 1,227,505 2011
# 156 Bahrain: 1,214,705 2011
# 157 East Timor: 1,177,834 2011
# 158 Cyprus: 1,120,489 2011
# 159 Fiji: 883,125 2011
# 160 Qatar: 848,016 2011
# 161 Comoros: 794,683 2011
# 162 R?ion: 787,584 2006
# 163 Djibouti: 757,074 2011
# 164 Guyana: 744,768 2011
# 165 Bhutan: 708,427 2011
# 166 Equatorial Guinea: 668,225 2011
# 167 Macau: 573,003 2011
# 168 Solomon Islands: 571,890 2011
# 169 Cape Verde: 516,100 2011
# 170 Luxembourg: 503,302 2011
# 171 Suriname: 491,989 2011
# 172 Guadeloupe: 452,776 2006
# 173 Martinique: 436,131 2006
# 174 Malta: 408,333 2011
# 175 Brunei: 401,890 2011
# 176 Maldives: 394,999 2011
# 177 Western Sahara: 393,831 2008
# 178 Belize: 321,115 2011
# 179 Bahamas, The: 313,312 2011
# 180 Iceland: 311,058 2011
# 181 French Polynesia: 294,935 2011
# 182 Barbados: 286,705 2011
# 183 New Caledonia: 256,275 2011
# 184 Netherlands Antilles: 225,369 2008
# 185 Vanuatu: 224,564 2011
# 186 Mayotte: 209,530 2011
# 187 French Guiana: 199,509 2006
# 188 Samoa: 193,161 2011
# 189 Guam: 183,286 2011
# 190 S?Tom?nd Pr?ipe: 179,506 2011
# 191 Saint Lucia: 161,557 2011
# 192 Virgin Islands: 109,666 2011
# 193 Grenada: 108,419 2011
# 194 Micronesia, Federated States of: 106,836 2011
# 195 Aruba: 106,113 2011
# 196 Tonga: 105,916 2011
# 197 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 103,869 2011
# 198 Kiribati: 100,743 2011
# 199 Jersey: 94,161 2011
# 200 Seychelles: 89,188 2011
# 201 Antigua and Barbuda: 87,884 2011
# 202 Andorra: 84,825 2011
# 203 Man, Isle of: 84,655 2011
# 204 Dominica: 72,969 2011
# 205 Bermuda: 68,679 2011
# 206 American Samoa: 67,242 2011
# 207 Marshall Islands: 67,182 2011
# 208 Guernsey: 65,068 2011
# 209 Greenland: 57,670 2011
# 210 Cayman Islands: 51,384 2011
# 211 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 50,314 2011
# 212 Faroe Islands: 49,267 2011
# 213 Northern Mariana Islands: 46,050 2011
# 214 Turks and Caicos Islands: 44,819 2011
# 215 Liechtenstein: 35,236 2011
# 216 San Marino: 31,817 2011
# 217 Saint Martin: 30,615 2011
# 218 Monaco: 30,539 2011
# 219 Gibraltar: 28,956 2011
# 220 British Virgin Islands: 25,383 2011
# 221 Palau: 20,956 2011
# 222 Wallis and Futuna: 15,398 2011
# 223 Anguilla: 15,094 2011
# 224 Cook Islands: 11,124 2011
# 225 Tuvalu: 10,544 2011
# 226 Nauru: 9,322 2011
# 227 Saint Helena: 7,601 2008
# 228 Saint Barthelemy: 7,367 2011
# 229 Saint Pierre and Miquelon: 5,888 2011
# 230 Montserrat: 5,140 2011
# 231 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas): 3,140 2009
# 232 Norfolk Island: 2,169 2009
# 233 Svalbard: 2,019 2009
# 234 Christmas Island: 1,402 2010
# 235 Tokelau: 1,384 2009
# 236 Niue: 1,311 2009
# 237 Holy See (Vatican City): 832 2011
# 238 Cocos (Keeling) Islands: 596 2010
# 239 Johnston Atoll: 396 2004
# 240 Pitcairn Islands: 48 2009
Total: 6,924,393,757
Weighted average: 28,851,640.7



@ admin

this thread has aroused curiosity in me: can you post something similar about Bankrollmob population nationalities?

I know is some extra work for you .... but I can give you some extra mobpoints for this Big Smile Big Smile Worship

     
   0   
Most BRM users should be from UK or northern europe countries, i believe. Its easy to figure it out. One can see by the mobpoints paid for each activity in different countries. I never understood very well that difference created in terms of country. My comment should be as valuable as a comment from anyone from other country. So as my referals!

------------
Most BRM users should be from UK or northern europe countries, i believe. Its easy to figure it out. One can see by the mobpoints paid for each activity in different countries. I never understood very well that difference created in terms of country. My comment should be as valuable as a comment from anyone from other country. So as my referals!

     
   0   
Posted by Serpang:
How is it not nice to have bluffy russians on your table?
You can get max. value off your hands that way.

No,tournaments with a loose game-flow are exactly what you want.
Not using your brain? lol,in poker you always have to use your brain.
You can always think in ranges,how you can get max. value postflop and stuff like this.
Regardless that I'm always playing several tables and then usually dont pick up reads like peoples betting-lines,I still play based on peoples stats. Even this give syou the possibility of deep thinking,if you have time to pick up "proper" reads like peoples betting patterns you can get into even more deep thinking. So the argument that it's impossible to use your brain is not valid.

What if you are carddead for an hour?
First off having a whole hour of getting your mentioned hands is very unlikely. It will eventually happen sometimes,but it's not likely.
What you do when it happens?
First off,you dont need a great hand to open hands in MTTs. And if people are looser than the usual players,you can play more hands and you gotta open up your ranges. This is why hand charts or s**t like this are bad. You always have to adjust to the situation and the opponent,you can't just play like what a piece of paper says.
2nd of all,as I mentioned above,poker is a game of longterm success,not shortterm.
You can play all day and not get any so called playable hand,in theory at least.
However all this time will even out with you getting monsters at a later point,and that's where you'll get max. value from those people.
This is where volume comes into effect. Obv. there will be a phase you get sucked out 20 times in a row by a donkey russian or a donkey from whatever country,but at the same time if you are a winning player,you will get more in EV in the future than what you've lost through all those suckouts.

Read more: http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...



Very good comment or tutorial BeMyATMplz Smile I had few experience like you said. Their bad play attack our psychic make us upset then play bad.



Might be a good idea to read the whole thread before you post your reactions.

A lot of posts here explaining the differences between volume play (where the theory is valid), and low volume play, where you´re looking at a whole other situation.
Not going to repeat it all here, just read everything if you want to understand the different points of view. Blink

     
   0   
honestly i dont care what anyone says, it is true...you can use math, you can see it time and time again...and it has nothing to do with how many russians there are playing, THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME!!!

anyways heres a video that kinda cheered me up after losing to another donkey suck out muppet russian who called my KK with a 93 off late in a tourney and he was average stack...guess who won???? yep you guessed it, the donkey russian

the video here: its hilarious and soooo true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEKvBUJk5Kk

     
   0   
Posted by compfixer77:
honestly i dont care what anyone says, it is true...you can use math, you can see it time and time again...and it has nothing to do with how many russians there are playing, THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME!!!


Huh??

     
   0   
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by compfixer77:
honestly i dont care what anyone says, it is true...you can use math, you can see it time and time again...and it has nothing to do with how many russians there are playing, THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME!!!


Huh??


I know,but the video is funny.
Smile

     
   0   


I like them russians. Prefer gin over vodka though, but Beluga caviar only works well with the latter.
Don't care about their gamblers but yeah; the overall donk ratio is quite high - if you go over their average buy-in you will not meet that many of them, you will meet the donks from various south-american countries.
Life is hard.

     
   0   
Posted by fcumred:
I have to say, having watched the sudden influx of spanish players on Pokerstars, I'll take a table of russians anyday of the week, because spanish players make Russians look like Phil Hellmuth, Ivey and Durrrr all rolled into one.

All this idea that because there are more Russians, then they will have more donks is nonsense. Spain isn't 1/10th of the size of Russia, and they have more idiotic players than any country I've ever seen on any poker site in the 5 years I've been playing online poker.

I used to hate Russians playing on pokerstars, but now, I'll take a whole MTT of russians over 3-4 spaniards at my table any day of the week..


I'll take a table of russians anyday. Just because i know how to use their idiotic donkey style to my advantace.

     
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