Joined: Sep '10
Location: Finland
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 29
What do you think about low suited cards that dont have a change to be connected in a straight, like 27s or 4Ts? Are these always trash hands in all positions. I usually never play these but could imagine a loose player who does. I guess the problem here is that even if you hit a color, your color is easily dominated by someone else's and you really cannot go all-in confidently.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Was playing a live cash game only last night. Not just once but twice I got into a flop with two nothing cards (4 8o maybe). Can't remember the details but I think I may have been UTG and straddled. Next player re-straddles so it's 4bb for the next person to call. Two flat calls and the big blind completes so now I have to call two more bb in a pot of 19bb. I don't expect the other straddler to raise so ofc I call. I hit two pair so I take it down quickly. But you have to be careful with these hands cos they can be more danger than they are worth, too easily out drawn and you don't get respect on those kind of flops.
As I say I won two decent pots with no hand preflop what so ever, but you need a good reason to get involved. As it happens I don't think them being suited makes much difference. You don't really want to hit a low value flush draw multi-handed cos you could find yourself forced to call with no chance of winning.
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
I'm a cash game player and the answer for the cash game strategy is definately yes...
Not sure about mtt or sng since i don't master that strategy, but on the other hand connected and suited hands like 910 or j10 are very tempting to play
And yes, on late stages of a mtt it could be a playble hand...
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
sometimes I played it when I know that card is winning card for the day. extremely strange sometimes that type of card also winning card at other site. I had experience about that. but SELDOM !!!!! If I had a lot chips I call ( not bid bet )
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
In late position definitely. You need to have good post-flop skills though;
A) You need to be able to fold weak top pair type hands B) You need to know how to steal - what kinds of boards to do it on, how to float a flop and steal on turn/river etc.
If unsure definitely just muck them, but against the right opponents they can be very profitable and you can easily induce your opponents to tilt.
Interestingly enough - when I spazz out and play $5/$10 NL (nl1000) I see the good regs playing these types of hands a lot, even 3bet & 4bet with them - but they are excellent post-flop players and I wouldn't recommend 3betting hands like 410s unless you are very confident in your play and how your opponent plays.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
In stgs and mtts its a usual fold for me except in mid late stages in position. maybe its just my luck but i seem to run against AK and such every time i try to represent them big utg. and even in late position to call or reraise a bet with that only if im starting to tilt lol. worked out yesterday for instance, but 8 out of 10 i stick with my tight play.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Itsalways dificult to play with this hands. If you have high cards, you can try to see what you get at the flop, not more than that, but with so low hands like you are showing? That looks like something to do only when you’re chip leading.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by jessthehuman: In late position definitely. You need to have good post-flop skills though;
A) You need to be able to fold weak top pair type hands B) You need to know how to steal - what kinds of boards to do it on, how to float a flop and steal on turn/river etc.
If unsure definitely just muck them, but against the right opponents they can be very profitable and you can easily induce your opponents to tilt.
Interestingly enough - when I spazz out and play $5/$10 NL (nl1000) I see the good regs playing these types of hands a lot, even 3bet & 4bet with them - but they are excellent post-flop players and I wouldn't recommend 3betting hands like 410s unless you are very confident in your play and how your opponent plays.
THIS is the kind of stuff I am now putting time in to learning. Still convinced that this kind of high-level statistical play only holds up when playing "volume" (ie.multi-tabling heavily). Talking about Tournaments or SnG´s, still clueless about Cash play.
72s is an 83% range hand, which is basically almost "any 2 cards" and involves a lot of "deep" knowledge of Ranges, Equity, Stacks etc. Especially the 3bet 4bet thingy. Also presumes an accurate read of the players involved or at your table, and probably an "in-depth" knowledge of all the available HEM stats on your Vilains, as far as I can gather.
Oustide of hitting a great flop, 2 pairs, or trips, don´t see myself doing too well with those yet. But I really like this thread, and hope to get some more examples from those actually playing those hands.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
dont play them much but only sometimes in late position against weak players / to mix the game a bit. most of the times you have to bluff with them to win which is risky at micros due to large number of calling stations
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by IslandJack: Oustide of hitting a great flop, 2 pairs, or trips, don't see myself doing too well with those yet. But I really like this thread, and hope to get some more examples from those actually playing those hands.
The book I read recently "Professional No Limit Holdem" talks a bit about playing hands (speculative) when you don't necessarily have the right implied odds. Basically it says only play these hands when you think you have a high fold/steal equity. Basically stating even if you're playing proper speculative hands like low pocket pairs and suited connectors, if you're playing to make a big hand only (and not to steal) - it's probably not going to be profitable - unless you have a very high stack-pot-ratio.
On the biggest things I've brought into my (cash) game in the last couple months is practicing floating /stealing. I've also realised in the process how often it is happening to me and how much if you're C-betting a missed board that so many regs will float your c-bet and if you check the turn they're going to beat you up hard. Basically - C-bets have almost become double-barreled by default to still be effective against an aggressive/loose opponent.
Tip: for anyone looking to float / steal more - typically float flops where you have some equity, but not a huge amount, hands like weak draws (gutshots, 3-to-flush, etc), over cards, etc. That way you can balance your floats/steals with the occasional monster on the river when you shitty draw comes through and it's very difficult for an opponent to put you on the hand.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
There are many players playing with such cards every time they get them. I have tagged a few regulars that do that every single time in ring games. And im not talking about tournies. They play the cards then like nuts till river
Some times depending on your position and the bet involved can become profitable hands.
Joined: Mar '10
Location: Croatia
Age: 74 (F)
Posts: 1038
It's ok card and you must try and if you hit colour you have very good hand but you must be very carefuly because with good hands you can lose big money,If someone wait colour like you that will be or big win or big lose(if 2nd player wait colour like you),my opinion you must try but be careful
