Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 3871
Im not a csh game player, randomly played only SSS from time to time on random poker rooms in the past. About a months go I started playing only cash game NL20 6-max, unfortunately without reading almost nothing about it. Today I just "found" a copy of HM and I am trying to use it offline to analyze my game. Well now I need your help/advices either on HM use (anyway I'm considering to buy a "regular" HM2) and on my game.
In short words I'm a noob in cash game and HM as well
I imported about 30K hands (i guess they are all the hands played - and played without any kind of HUD) anD would like to post some infos here to have your opinions and your suggestions on my game.
Which stats have to be posted to provide main informations about my game? I'm now posting the two only graphs I managed to produce on HM. Maybe is it better to use bigblinds instead of euros as measure unit? Wait for your replies
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
I am glad you made this forum. I am not going to be able to help, because cash and ring are just too much for me, i always end up puting all the money i have in the table and then: regret. But im happy with this because i want some advices too: my first step will be learning to shut the PC down when i lost over three buy-ins in a row. I never used HM before and, for my game, i dont think its worth it, but our good mobters advices, that i want to read carefully to learn something about cash game.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
You like to flip, not a problem, seams to me you are playing way to passive, not protecting blinds perhaps, chances are you are getting in to big pots and giving up easily, or calling bets when you should be folding, you don't seam to over play hands but do seam to under value. Just instinct from graph, you would have to post full stats to actually get a true idea, but if you read the above and think yer I do give up easy, I don't protect blinds and am getting in to big pots on "hope to hit" set mining for eg, then that's a place to start. If these are old hands its no true reflection on how you are playing now.
Joined: Mar '10
Location: Croatia
Age: 74 (F)
Posts: 1038
Hi,Iam also glad you make this thread.I don't use any programs to see how is my game progres and I play s'n'gos and tourneys,very little time I play cash games and I wait to see what should others say for your graphs,it will be very interesting.When FTP goes down I start to play bingo almopst every day and that was be only to try but 1st day i was made profit and I play day by day on Party bingo and in few months I have profit about 1600$.Now I wait to see which poker room I may trust to again start play poker but I was regular FTP player and it miss me.Playing at Pokerstars but very little because I can't used on Pokerstars like I was on FTP,for thread
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
30 k is a good sample to make an idea abot how are you playing actually..
If i look to your graph i saw tht right in the mddle you have a nasty downswing, thats without doubt playing while titlted and basically that the first mistake.
Other than that your game seems to be pretty good.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Posted by Macubaas: 30 k is a good sample to make an idea abot how are you playing actually..
If i look to your graph i saw tht right in the mddle you have a nasty downswing, thats without doubt playing while titlted and basically that the first mistake.
Other than that your game seems to be pretty good.
It would be if it was over a short period, but I dont think it was. You can see were he tightened up around the 15k mark, but seams to still be playing a bit too passive IMO, and getting involved in perhaps multiways without big hand, or not playing position to potential and protecting blinds. At 15k hand selection seams better but perhaps more aggression is needed. As said from the graph its a bit of guess work, but there is a problem with the dreded red line wich normally indicts under valuing hands and playing passive.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by Flippedchips: yep good thread as i have just started using this stuff and still a bit clueless
how can you tell all that from they graphs thats what im thinking bigfoot
The non showdown winnings show...well..his non showdown winnings,so you can tell a little bit from the red line in the graph. Plus,his overall stats just VPIP etc. there's a screen of it on the very right
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 3871
Posted by B1gfoot: You like to flip, not a problem, seams to me you are playing way to passive, not protecting blinds perhaps, chances are you are getting in to big pots and giving up easily, or calling bets when you should be folding, you don't seam to over play hands but do seam to under value. Just instinct from graph, you would have to post full stats to actually get a true idea, but if you read the above and think yer I do give up easy, I don't protect blinds and am getting in to big pots on "hope to hit" set mining for eg, then that's a place to start. If these are old hands its no true reflection on how you are playing now.
Well, the 30K hands sample are from last month (i just started playing only cash game a month ago)...yes I had a period I judged a downswing but maybe a lot of it depended from a lack of protection my hands ..then I gave up for sime days and then came back again trying to add a bit of aggression to my play...it seems it worked
anyway B1gfoot let me know which stats I should post and please enlighten the way to produce them.
and what do you all mobsterz think about the stats I posted (picture on the very right). judging from those numbers how do you read me TAP or TAG or complete fish or Rock
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
i dont use HEM so cant comment on the stats but lookin from the graphs i hav to agree with b1gfoot those non-showdown earnings are way too low ( or high in negative). looks like u been either gettin in too many big pots or folding too much on later streets, either of which is not good. u seem like a person who i can go into a big pot with and if i miss i can bluff easily.
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 3871
Posted by Macubaas: I think the second part could be a bit more valid actually, here would be interesting to see whats his fold to bet value on later streets...
For a detailed strategy evaluation we would definately need those stats too ut not too many players are okay to post them on public poker forums....
It's ok for me to post my stats as I want to know your toughs and want tp improve my game: I need to know where the main job has to be done. let's tell me which other stats can help you to analyze my first month of cash game
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Stat wise, posting your VPIP, pre-flop raise, agression, 3bet % and c-bet % would be a good start.
Graph is pretty trippy, I'd say you may be bluffing a little more than you should be, since your red line is so steep, and your blueline is so sharp. Seems like you go to showdown a lot, so maybe posting your w$wsd and showdown % as well.
I can't claim I know a shitload about cash, since I haven't got a lot of cash game experience myself, but seems like you could be a solid player, you just need to make adjustments.
If you "aquired" a copy of hem (tsk tsk) I'd suggest running your hands through leak buster. It'll do a better job of identifying your potential leaks than we possibly can, given it has absolutely every piece of information it can use.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Hmmm, seems like you're very loose and passive. VPIP of 33% is probably a bit high, I'd say anywhere around the range of 18=20% is where you should be. 3-bet % is good, 3-5% is where you should be. Aggression factor and frequency are quite low.
I'd be interested to hear what others have to say, but it seems like you play far too loose, and give up on pots unless you have a relatively strong hand.
Try tightening your range, especially when you're out of position.
Definately take a look at leakbuster. If there's one piece of advice I could give any player looking to improve, it'd be to use that program.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
According to the 2nd graph, i would define you as a rock, considering that you started loosing but managed but did enough to go back to square one. The worst is that when you started to win, you had a relapse. In my opinion, this chart shows that you dont always play the same way: in the begining you may have revealed a bit out of luck, even with good hands, which then was possible to compensate. And when you began to win, either you played hands that should not be played or the bad luck striked you again. Were you playing too tight?
------------ According to the 2nd graph, i would define you as a rock, considering that you started loosing but managed but did enough to go back to square one. The worst is that when you started to win, you had a relapse. In my opinion, this chart shows that you dont always play the same way: in the begining you may have revealed a bit out of luck, even with good hands, which then was possible to compensate. And when you began to win, either you played hands that should not be played or the bad luck striked you again. Were you playing too tight?
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
retribution is right, loose and passive for sure, not that bad TBH, have seen much much worse, but you do need some tweeks, and you are the sort of player I love to sit next to.
VPIP to high, 18-20 as suggested sounds right to me, tighten up, the very first leak to plug. PFR is to low, stop limping, floating is fine now and then, when playing a pot min bet 3x, MORE AGGRESION, if set mining raise, you have to build that pot, put 16% for target. AGG Again to low, I feel due to out of position play(again suggested above), dubble barrel more or get beter position, AGGRESION WTSD to high need to cut back on the showdowns, stop checking and letting them play, this is possibly having position and not using it, giving villain an easy rideaggresion W$SD as above in short, too passive and letting people take pots that you should win before a showdown. I am not going to suggest trying to adapt a LAG style, you are loose enought but I dont feel you can, for now, become aggressive enough. So I suggest going TAG, think of position more, tighten your range, but most important (IMO) play more aggerive, win the pot and stop hoping to win the pot, you will be getting bluffed, blinds stolen and taking few blinds yourself. The EV graph suggests at 15k that you started to play a better position game, but Im not so in to EV graphs TBH and could just show swings. Hope it helps GL, changing is hard, and not natural, you have to force it, but after a while it becomes second nature and you will reap the rewards. Put a hand chart as a desktop picture and just play some solid ABC for a while, then think about getting tricky. BTW worth noting that the bigger dip on the red line could also be due to playing more tables, so play less if so and all the above still applies.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
I don't know how, but I totally missed the second graph when I was checking out your initial post.
Your ev line is absolute **cked, no offense lol. Seems like you were playing loose/agressive, shoving all-in a lot when you didn't have the best hand. That right there is probably a big indicator.
There's a fine line between being a good LAG, and a bad LAG. Knowing WHEN to be aggressive, and against who is what you need to work on.
Think of these 2 scenarios
In both scenarios You're in CO, it's folded to you. You have Kd Js. You raise 3x.
SB is VPIP 11, AF of 2, 3bet of 2.5 - This guy is a total rock. He's obviously playing only the top 10% of his range, and folding the rest. When he DOES play a hand, he plays it aggressively. Otherwise he's check-folding.
BB is VPIP 38, AF of 5 3bet of 6.5 - This guy is a total maniac. He's playing a wide range of hands, and he LOVES to raise and 3bet.
Scenario 1: You 3x in c/o, SB folds and BB min re-raises you to 7bb. You flat, knowing he's likely raising very light. Flop comes JD 8s 2h. BB opens for 10 bb, around 3/4 the pot. You know he's likely betting light, and c-bet bluffing a lot. You re-raise to 30BB and he insta-folds. Because you have a relatively strong hand, and you know your opponent bluffs a lot, you can consider playing back at him a little lighter.
Scenario 2: You 3x in c/o, SB flats and BB folds. Flop comes Kh Jh As. Sb checks, you bet 10BB, sb thinks and then re-raises to 30bb. Now you have to stop and think. What kind of range is an opponent playing, and what would he be raising with on a board like that.
An opponent with a VPIP of 10% is only playing 10/10+, AKo/AKs and maybe AQo. As you can see, a flop like that is going to hit his range fairly hard. When he starts to show aggression, you can re-assess where you are, and figure out if you want to continue with the hand. How will his range with that flop hold up vs your 2 pair.
Most players can't see a hand past what they hold, and this is the fundamental difference between a good player and a bad one. Knowing who you are up against, what their range is and how they play according to their strength. Adjusting your style according to who you are up against is another important part of evolving.
Leak buster also has some great videos, on topics like 3-betting light, floating, and position play.
Post some stats in another 10k hands and let's see how things go
a copy of HM and I am trying to use it offline to analyze my game.
