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Aye it's not like I do it every hand though!! I bluff once if the pot gets a reasonable size, if it fails I don't do it again and very rarely show. But when it's epic like getting a flush to fold to a full house possibility you have to show!

     
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Posted by godward89:
you have to show!


Posted by godward89:
if im trying to represent an ace and they call with a pair of 4's im hating life


1+1 = 2
make any sense ?

     
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Posted by doomdy:
The lower the stake the easier to beat ----> fact.
the higher the stake the more difficult to beat ------> fact.


I'm sorry but I think for once doomdy you are completely off the mark. To suggest that a pro would be guaranteed to win more hands at micro stakes is laughable. That's not to say I agree with what godward is saying. The fact average play at micro stakes is bad is no excuse not to win. In the long term if you make the right decisions you will beat the donks, the overly aggressive, and the insane.

However, it doesn't necessarily follow that the higher the stakes, the better the standard of play. If this was true the better players would all be dropping down and playing for longer in order to win easier, thus paradoxically canceling out the average play. In truth there are lots of rich donks willing to throw their money away and plenty of grinders at the low stakes who don't have the funds to go up.

What does happen as you change stakes, is the average style of play changes. Micro stakes can be more loose and aggressive as nobody cares, so you need to change your play accordingly. You may end up going all-in more often, which has higher variance and requires safer brm. On the other end of the scale, once you get past a certain point, aggression starts to rise again. Players with lots of money tend to more aggressive and they don't play low stakes. They play medium stakes but they try and bully those who should be playing lower stakes. So at this stage you have to be more calculated about the style of everyone at your table. It's not more difficult, just different.

     
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U CAN'T BLUFF BAD PLAYERS THEY WILL CALL WITH ACE HIGH,A DONK IS A DONK IS A DONK,ESPECIALLY POKERSTARS ,THAT SITE IS THE BIGGEST RIPPOF IN ALL OF ONLINE POKER

     
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Posted by awood88:
Posted by doomdy:
The lower the stake the easier to beat ----> fact.
the higher the stake the more difficult to beat ------> fact.


I'm sorry but I think for once doomdy you are completely off the mark. To suggest that a pro would be guaranteed to win more hands at micro stakes is laughable. That's not to say I agree with what godward is saying. The fact average play at micro stakes is bad is no excuse not to win. In the long term if you make the right decisions you will beat the donks, the overly aggressive, and the insane.

However, it doesn't necessarily follow that the higher the stakes, the better the standard of play. If this was true the better players would all be dropping down and playing for longer in order to win easier, thus paradoxically canceling out the average play. In truth there are lots of rich donks willing to throw their money away and plenty of grinders at the low stakes who don't have the funds to go up.

What does happen as you change stakes, is the average style of play changes. Micro stakes can be more loose and aggressive as nobody cares, so you need to change your play accordingly. You may end up going all-in more often, which has higher variance and requires safer brm. On the other end of the scale, once you get past a certain point, aggression starts to rise again. Players with lots of money tend to more aggressive and they don't play low stakes. They play medium stakes but they try and bully those who should be playing lower stakes. So at this stage you have to be more calculated about the style of everyone at your table. It's not more difficult, just different.


Rarely seen a post this long that looks like it's an expert post but in reality has so many false stuff in it (sorry to say)

1st: What does it matter if a pro wins more hands @ higher stakes than at micro stakes?
The only thing that matters is the winrate,not how many hands someone wins lol.
Maybe you win less hands at microstakes if you are good,but thats because play is looser and opponents fold less. If you get a hand however you will get paid out much more often,which is much more valuable than "winning many hands"

2nd: Of course you have to change your style of play,however playing solely for value is the easiest way to play which will get you the highest winrate possible (just take as example that a good NL10 player can make about 6BB/100 while a good winrate at midstakes is 1-1.5BB/100)

3rd: Great players do play lower stakes as well. Simply because they notice what I mentioned,the lower the stakes the higher the winrate achievable because they get more value off their hands,and that means their actual $ winrate can be higher at a lower stake than at a higher one

4th: microstakes does not have higher variance,that's ridiculous.
Every good NL cash player will say for microstakes 25-30 stacks BR are enough,while starting @ NL100 no proper grinder plays it with less than 50 buy ins (thats already pretty much the minimum).
It's simple,the tighter the skill level between players,the lower the actual winrate and thus the swings are bigger.

5th: Yes it is more difficult to play higher stakes,simply because the game is becoming more complex. You cant be a winning player @ low/midstakes with a great microstakes strategy,since you cant valuetown the opposition too often anymore,plus your play will there be much more predictable after some time.
The more simple you can get a good winrate,the easier is the game,thats simple logic,and it is the case at microstakes only.

     
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AND JUST TO MAKE A POINT,WATCH TOM DWAN PLAY,HE CALLS WITH CRAP CONSTANTLY AND SUCKSOUT SOOOOOOOO MUCH,SO MICRO STAKES OR BIG MONEY DONKS WILL ALWAYS BE THERE,AND YES EVEN THOUGH TOM DWAN HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL,I AM IMPLYING HE IS A SUPERDONK

     
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Rarely seen a post this long that looks like it's an expert post but in reality has so many false stuff in it (sorry to say)


That's ok. You are entitled to your opinion. I could say the same about your post. lol.

I was arguing only that the lowest stakes are not necessarily the easiest to beat. Each level requires you to alter your style of play and therefore one individual may have better results, by which I mean a higher win rate, at a higher level.

     
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Show me one player who has a higher BB winrate at non-micros than at micros then,both over a decent samplesize,you'll have a hard time finding one

     
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ok im gonna say my two pennys worth in here..................................

from a old timer playing online poker for many years..........
just play ABC at any level and you will make a profit and beat any level (stakes)
dont get me wrong there is different levels of playing styles for each level mainly the mircos
are fishy but at the higher stakes they have them too but with the right bankroll management,
you can make plenty of easy money witch ever stake you play...................
im writing this thread muti table 9 tables at the mo hope it makes sence Smile

     
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If you know players are gonna call with crap, then why bluff? The only real thing you have to do to beat the microstakes is not bluff and wait your hands. If you lose an all in to a worse hand, get over it and win the next one. You need about 20-25 buyins per limit you are playing. That's called BRM.

The things I have just mentioned are the only things you need to crush until NL25.

     
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Posted by dozn01:
ok im gonna say my two pennys worth in here..................................

from a old timer playing online poker for many years..........
just play ABC at any level and you will make a profit and beat any level (stakes)
dont get me wrong there is different levels of playing styles for each level mainly the mircos
are fishy but at the higher stakes they have them too but with the right bankroll management,
you can make plenty of easy money witch ever stake you play...................
im writing this thread muti table 9 tables at the mo hope it makes sence Smile


Wouldn't quite agree with that,you have a point though Blink
It's just the higher the stakes you play,the higher will be the winning reg/rish ratio.
Winning regs will notice over time how you play and you're gonna be very predictable after some time,they will 3bet you lighter because you're gonna fold to 3bets fairly often (if you play ABC poker that is),they will know when you bet you have something good,and so on

     
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