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Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
I wonder is this good shove. I was ITM in 2,2$ 6max tourney. 2,5k people registered. About 190 left.
PokerStars Game #71187781271: Tournament #548010556, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2011/11/26 23:43:52 CET [2011/11/26 17:43:52 ET] Table '548010556 245' 6-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: jabimarkoko (48895 in chips) Seat 2: bull88s (43954 in chips) Seat 3: BimmerPower (38790 in chips) Seat 4: D1sya (27765 in chips) Seat 5: acivoj pfc (14228 in chips) Seat 6: okNikolaev (63223 in chips) jabimarkoko: posts the ante 100 bull88s: posts the ante 100 BimmerPower: posts the ante 100 D1sya: posts the ante 100 acivoj pfc: posts the ante 100 okNikolaev: posts the ante 100 BimmerPower: posts small blind 500 D1sya: posts big blind 1000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to acivoj pfc [Ts Ac] acivoj pfc: raises 13128 to 14128 and is all-in
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Netherlands
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 95
this can be considered a good play aswell as bad
depends on a few things table knowledge average chip stack
but with all the information given its a pretty loose play here with A10 offsuit, knowing there are 8 others behind your all-in you cant complain if called by a better pre hand.
though i would prolly push or fold aswell but this position i would fold
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Since you are in the money the blinds are at 1k and the table is 6 seated which doesnt give you many chances to see more cards in order to get something better, i believe it is. You have the lowest stack in the table though and you might get more callers than expected. Not a bad situation if you win the hand Did you win the hand?
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Switzerland
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 210
I wouldn't shove. In my opinion by going all-in UTG there is a good chance to be called only by better hands. Everything depends on the table though...
Possibly dammed if you don't and if you do. Having the blinds come up next two hands makes for a tough spot. The only thing that would hold me up here is the position...have no way of knowing what's conimg...and then again maybe I don't care and just hope to double up or steal. Anyone with a premiem hand is going to see it as a steal attempt. I'm sure you had a good read at the table and felt confident you could get through with a shove. Otherwise a fold allows me to see at least 3 more hands and maybe move up the ladder in the process. Overall it's risky...seen ppl win with less...here's hoping you got thru.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Seems like a reasonable call to me given the circumstances although I probably would've waited and tried to buy the blinds with an all in. Although good chance you'd been called anyway with a much better hand at that point. You never know.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
No I'm afraid you have to fold even short handed. You can't limp or raise so it is either shove or fold but A10 is only going to get called by better hands. Late position unraised it's a definite shove but UTG it's asking for trouble and you are not as of yet desperate enough. You can afford to let the blinds pass through you and still have enough to get someone to fold to you. After going all-in best case scenario is everyone folds to you and you get some blinds plus antes and worst case you are called and dominated and your tourneys over. The reward isn't good enough to justify the worst case. It's a hard spot and most people would see a decent hand and push here but experienced players know better.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Good shove,it should be bottom of your range tho. Guys,its a $2 tourney,people will spewcall with a lot of worse hands,not even to mention the deadmoney alone increasing our stack by 15%,ship all day.
Posted by awood88: . It's a hard spot and most people would see a decent hand and push here but experienced players know better.
So expirienced players like to get blinded down in MTTs instead of getting deep? Alright..
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by awood88: . It's a hard spot and most people would see a decent hand and push here but experienced players know better.
So expirienced players like to get blinded down in MTTs instead of getting deep? Alright..
Not at all. I'm not encouraging playing so tight you get blinded out. When you have 10 - 14 bb you need to find a way to double up soon but simply winning a round of blinds doesn't solve anything. That's what will get you blinded out cos you are not earning anything per round. What you need is to get it all-in with another player when you are good. You won't do this with A10. No one is going to call 14 bb with worse. Only a middle pair in which case you get a race and that's not too bad or something that dominates your hand. In late position you shove A10 to win back blinds for the extra equity but you don't want to be called. UTG there's too many potential callers even short handed. Being able to play short-stack is one of the most important things in tourney play as we all have to do it at one point. And the key to good shortstack play is position.
Posted by awood88: . It's a hard spot and most people would see a decent hand and push here but experienced players know better.
So expirienced players like to get blinded down in MTTs instead of getting deep? Alright..
No, it's more about living...to fight another day...if I don't think my hand has a decent shot of bouncing me up then I muck it. To be very honest here most of the time I land ITM short stacked and have to pick my spots to bounce up. I don't get many good hands so I must maximize my stack when I enter the pot. I play conservative and by no means is that passive. In my case I learned this the hardway, agression is folly without scyncronicity. However small, the concept here is to maximize ROI. Having realized this, I know, I did all I could.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Depend on your feeling, without strong feeling I don't shove at UTG, yeah poor stake but maybe will get better chance than A 10 os, sometimes working for me.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by Jibberish: i wouldve limped, then when someone raises you light with an iffy hand you can easily shove there
That would be probably worst way to play it...
I wasnt getting any cards for half an hour and I would be blinded out if I didnt made some questionable shoves before. But its lot easier I think to shove 89 suited in late then this in early... Will post rest of hand later when more people give opinion.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
No offend to all replys here who say fold (not judging limp clowns ), but this is so standaard, its 100% shove all day long. If you fold here you dont understand how a MTT works, even before the bubble i shove this, push/fold has nothing to do with the bubble.
The outcome of this hand got absolutely nothing to do wether this shove is good play or bad, if busting against a AT+, any pair, hands like JTs, the shove itself is EV+ for sure.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by doomdy: No offend to all replys here who say fold (not judging limp clowns ), but this is so standaard, its 100% shove all day long.
Bingo. A stack of just 14 BB and AT first to act is a no brainer shove. The hand ist to strong to be folded 6handed, and we are to low on chips to play poker after the flop.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
For people who say ''fold and wait for better spot''
We have sometin like 7 orbits left, when blinds go up we have 5/6 orbits left, what better spot you want? ATo, 6handed, M=7, first to act -------> standard shove.
I shove in this same spot hands like 89s, KTo, Arag ect, so many hands to shove, get it in and go for the win while you still can!!!
------------ Shoving in this spot for example 89s and getting called by AK makes you almost a flip, thats perfect, your currently in the bottom rank stacksizes and you get the upportunity to flip, why the hell you dont want that Lets say run this MTT 100 times, 50 times you bust, other 50 times you double up and go for FT. Lets say you fold, 100 times your still at the bottom rank stacksizes with again no time left to wait for hands.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by awood88: Not at all. I'm not encouraging playing so tight you get blinded out. When you have 10 - 14 bb you need to find a way to double up soon but simply winning a round of blinds doesn't solve anything. That's what will get you blinded out cos you are not earning anything per round. What you need is to get it all-in with another player when you are good. You won't do this with A10. No one is going to call 14 bb with worse. Only a middle pair in which case you get a race and that's not too bad or something that dominates your hand. In late position you shove A10 to win back blinds for the extra equity but you don't want to be called. UTG there's too many potential callers even short handed. Being able to play short-stack is one of the most important things in tourney play as we all have to do it at one point. And the key to good shortstack play is position.
lol,you have no idea of simple MTT systems like M system or stuff like that,no offence. Sure winning the deadmoney doesnt solve it,but if we can increase our stack by 15% by simply taking it down preflop,why not?
We dont get called by worse? lol! It's a $2 tourney,I guarantee you the calling range of the average $2 donk is something like: 22+/A9+/A8s+/all broadways. Often it's even slightly looser and people will call with T9s and that kind of stuff. vs. the above range we have 48.2% equity (I just stoved it),making it mathematicly correct even if we know for a fact we'll get called.
Another fact is the mistake that people think they have to shove tight in UTG. You guys do forget that in the next round you will be in the blinds,decreasing your stack even more. In fact you should shove wider than in,say,UTG+1,if you have a shove/fold stack that is. Shoving UTG also increases your fold equity because not many people know that concept in microstakes.
In MTTs it's important to take every spot possible as long as it's +EV,you wont build a stack,nevermind get really deep by folding and aiting for the nuts,you always have to be willing to risk your stack in marginal situations,again only as long as it's +EV.
I've played about 8K games since I started playing,90% of them being turbos,so trust me,I do know shoving play,and this is an easy shove.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by doomdy: For people who say ''fold and wait for better spot''
We have sometin like 7 orbits left, when blinds go up we have 5/6 orbits left, what better spot you want? ATo, 6handed, M=7, first to act -------> standard shove.
I shove in this same spot hands like 89s, KTo, Arag ect, so many hands to shove, get it in and go for the win while you still can!!!
------------ Shoving in this spot for example 89s and getting called by AK makes you almost a flip, thats perfect, your currently in the bottom rank stacksizes and you get the upportunity to flip, why the hell you dont want that Lets say run this MTT 100 times, 50 times you bust, other 50 times you double up and go for FT. Lets say you fold, 100 times your still at the bottom rank stacksizes with again no time left to wait for hands.
So choose again please FOLD???
Yeah I shoved 89 s in cut off few hands before this. I thought it was shove off course so I shoved. I had very bad filing about it, felt Im going to lose but still I think I had to shove there.
This is resume of hand:
okNikolaev: folds jabimarkoko: folds bull88s: raises 29726 to 43854 and is all-in BimmerPower: folds D1sya: folds Uncalled bet (29726) returned to bull88s *** FLOP *** [5s Jd 4h] *** TURN *** [5s Jd 4h] *** RIVER *** [5s Jd 4h 8d] *** SHOW DOWN *** acivoj pfc: shows [Ts Ac] (high card Ace) bull88s: shows [Qh Qc] (a pair of Queens) bull88s collected 30356 from pot acivoj pfc finished the tournament in 167th place and received $6.23. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 30356 | Rake 0 Board [5s Jd 4h 8d 7d] Seat 1: jabimarkoko folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: bull88s (button) showed [Qh Qc] and won (30356) with a pair of Queens Seat 3: BimmerPower (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: D1sya (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: acivoj pfc showed [Ts Ac] and lost with high card Ace Seat 6: okNikolaev folded before Flop (didn't bet)
then ill change my earlier comment and say push 
), but this is so standaard, its 100% shove all day long. 
