Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
Opinions? preflop it wasn't the best call I made but in my opinion there is no way he could have called on the turn. He did have a big stack, and he's sure he made the right play. Not the best in omaha but on that turn if someoen shoves there is no way a set is still good. But as I said not a master in omaha so I would like your guys opinion on this.
PokerStars Game #71563348852: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2011/12/03 23:48:06 CET [2011/12/03 17:48:06 ET] Table 'Matra IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: muscheto ($1.39 in chips) Seat 2: Socrateeess ($19.18 in chips) Seat 3: greedyRuss ($9.57 in chips) Seat 4: Assad91 ($13.02 in chips) Seat 5: battle87 ($7.96 in chips) Seat 6: OrangeVodka ($25.51 in chips) battle87: posts small blind $0.02 OrangeVodka: posts big blind $0.05 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to battle87 [3d Kd Kc 4c] muscheto: folds Socrateeess: folds muscheto leaves the table greedyRuss: raises $0.12 to $0.17 Assad91 is disconnected Assad91 has timed out while disconnected Assad91: folds battle87: raises $0.28 to $0.45 OrangeVodka: raises $1.05 to $1.50 greedyRuss: folds battle87: calls $1.05 *** FLOP *** [Ad 2d 8s] battle87: checks OrangeVodka: bets $2.20 battle87: calls $2.20 *** TURN *** [Ad 2d 8s] battle87: bets $4.26 and is all-in OrangeVodka: calls $4.26 Assad91 is connected ptr_mo joins the table at seat #1 *** RIVER *** [Ad 2d 8s 9d] *** SHOW DOWN *** battle87: shows [3d Kd Kc 4c] (a flush, Ace high) OrangeVodka: shows [As 3s Ac Kh] (a full house, Aces full of Eights) OrangeVodka collected $15.31 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $16.09 | Rake $0.78 Board [Ad 2d 8s 9d 8c] Seat 1: muscheto folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Socrateeess folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: greedyRuss folded before Flop Seat 4: Assad91 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: battle87 (small blind) showed [3d Kd Kc 4c] and lost with a flush, Ace high Seat 6: OrangeVodka (big blind) showed [As 3s Ac Kh] and won ($15.31) with a full house, Aces full of Eights
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Yeah his call is pretty terrible. He has 10 outs for a fullhouse,which equals about 23% or so (too lazy to calculate exact amoun right now ),while he needs about 38% to make it a profitable call.
I dont like the way you played the hand either tho. Pretty much all you have on the flop is a flushdraw (because you're basicly always way behind vs. his preflop 4-betting range),which equals 9 outs. We cant really consider all of those outs as actual outs tho. Loads of his preflop 4betting range are gonna be AAxx combos,which means every pair on the board will make you lose the hand even if you hit your flush. So lets just assume he has AAxx 50% of the time (its probably more),that means the 8 of diamonds + a diamond on the river of the turn high card value (lets assume turn is a Q of spades,and river is a Q of diamonds for example) arent actual outs. 2 outs discounted,50% of that is 1 out discounted,leaving you with 8 outs. 8 outs on the flop equals about 30% equity. You invested $2.20 to win roughly $5.25 or so,that means you need about 40% or so equity to make it a profitable call. Surely we could argue about implied odds on later streets,but you stated in your post you even assume that if the 3rd diamond hits the board that he should assume that he is beat there.
IMO you also played your hand very faced-up on the turn. You shove into him when the flop gets there,it's pretty clear that you have the flush. You stated in your post that he should be aware of it,but it's just not a very good play. What you did was basicly drawing for the nuts,to make him fold when you hit the nuts. However,you want to get value when you have the nuts of course. So I'd just let him keep betting,I really doubt he'd slow down much with top set,he still has outs,so just go for check/calling or check/shoving (depending how much he bets),it will give you most value against the average player.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
Posted by BeMyATMplz: Yeah his call is pretty terrible. He has 10 outs for a fullhouse,which equals about 23% or so (too lazy to calculate exact amoun right now ),while he needs about 38% to make it a profitable call.
I dont like the way you played the hand either tho. Pretty much all you have on the flop is a flushdraw (because you're basicly always way behind vs. his preflop 4-betting range),which equals 9 outs. We cant really consider all of those outs as actual outs tho. Loads of his preflop 4betting range are gonna be AAxx combos,which means every pair on the board will make you lose the hand even if you hit your flush. So lets just assume he has AAxx 50% of the time (its probably more),that means the 8 of diamonds + a diamond on the river of the turn high card value (lets assume turn is a Q of spades,and river is a Q of diamonds for example) arent actual outs. 2 outs discounted,50% of that is 1 out discounted,leaving you with 8 outs. 8 outs on the flop equals about 30% equity. You invested $2.20 to win roughly $5.25 or so,that means you need about 40% or so equity to make it a profitable call. Surely we could argue about implied odds on later streets,but you stated in your post you even assume that if the 3rd diamond hits the board that he should assume that he is beat there.
IMO you also played your hand very faced-up on the turn. You shove into him when the flop gets there,it's pretty clear that you have the flush. You stated in your post that he should be aware of it,but it's just not a very good play. What you did was basicly drawing for the nuts,to make him fold when you hit the nuts. However,you want to get value when you have the nuts of course. So I'd just let him keep betting,I really doubt he'd slow down much with top set,he still has outs,so just go for check/calling or check/shoving (depending how much he bets),it will give you most value against the average player.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
Posted by BeMyATMplz: Yeah his call is pretty terrible. He has 10 outs for a fullhouse,which equals about 23% or so (too lazy to calculate exact amoun right now ),while he needs about 38% to make it a profitable call.
I dont like the way you played the hand either tho. Pretty much all you have on the flop is a flushdraw (because you're basicly always way behind vs. his preflop 4-betting range),which equals 9 outs. We cant really consider all of those outs as actual outs tho. Loads of his preflop 4betting range are gonna be AAxx combos,which means every pair on the board will make you lose the hand even if you hit your flush. So lets just assume he has AAxx 50% of the time (its probably more),that means the 8 of diamonds + a diamond on the river of the turn high card value (lets assume turn is a Q of spades,and river is a Q of diamonds for example) arent actual outs. 2 outs discounted,50% of that is 1 out discounted,leaving you with 8 outs. 8 outs on the flop equals about 30% equity. You invested $2.20 to win roughly $5.25 or so,that means you need about 40% or so equity to make it a profitable call. Surely we could argue about implied odds on later streets,but you stated in your post you even assume that if the 3rd diamond hits the board that he should assume that he is beat there.
IMO you also played your hand very faced-up on the turn. You shove into him when the flop gets there,it's pretty clear that you have the flush. You stated in your post that he should be aware of it,but it's just not a very good play. What you did was basicly drawing for the nuts,to make him fold when you hit the nuts. However,you want to get value when you have the nuts of course. So I'd just let him keep betting,I really doubt he'd slow down much with top set,he still has outs,so just go for check/calling or check/shoving (depending how much he bets),it will give you most value against the average player.
I know I played this hand euhm onorthodox . But with the way he was playing I thought I could get all of his chips if I hit it (I was right but got unlucky at the river, not gonna complain about that. The river on pokerstars saved me more then it cracked me). But thanks for the reply, think thats all the info that could have been given about this hand.
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi!!
I don´t see the call in turn SO horrible. I saw worst in micro limits. 4$ for a 10$ pot with top set (the other don´t believe the flush, standard) plus outs for the full house.
If holdem in micros have players with nosense, OHAMA HAVE the double!!!!!
I don´t gonna say nothing about rivers in pokerstars...
There are 2 things I would say were wrong in that hand
1) You re-raised pre flop out of position with KK. I would have flat called the 1st raise with a view to folding to any subsequent re-raise. The momnent he 4 bet you then that should have told you he had AA** and thats when you should have let it go. You are realistically drawing to hit a King on the flop ( 2 outs ) or you are pushing for a flush draw but given he's clearly hit two aces you may well be up against a higher flush.
2) The call after the flop was horrendous. You are basically drawing to the same number of outs so its a coin flip and given its obvious he had AA ( see above ) you are the one needing to get lucky.
Look at it this way
He hits - you miss- he wins He hits - you hit - he wins You miss - he misses - he wins You hit - he misses - you win
That means out of the 4 possible scenarios you are going to lose in 3 of them. Its just too much of a gamble.
You want to be at least in a position where even if you miss you still have a hand that could win the pot, and the fact is you knew you were way behind before the turn. When you called his bet after the flop you had a pair of Ks with a backup of a flush draw. He was ahead the entire way so could happily call knowing that if you missed he wins.
),while he needs about 38% to make it a profitable call.
. But with the way he was playing I thought I could get all of his chips if I hit it (I was right but got unlucky at the river, not gonna complain about that. The river on pokerstars saved me more then it cracked me). But thanks for the reply, think thats all the info that could have been given about this hand.
