Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by pochui: the easiest thing to say- they are donks, or do not know how to play...what about you, did you have a go at those stakes, do you know what's behind their moves- maybe it's a plan to play some hands stupid, but catch up on other bigger pots, maybe he was thinking it's a great call- there is no explanation from viktor, so we cannot say what were the reasons for one move or another...oh and one more thing...maybe he is a degenerate gambler
For everz move, even worse one someone can give you explanation... You always can find reason for your play. But I have watched Ivey play and he is very aggressive too but you will never see CALL like this by him. To go all in is OK since you have blocker and fold equity but to call someones all in...
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
If you watch PLO games often you will see that this kind of play with the hands they hold its pretty standard. And im not talking at their limits only. From micro-low limits where for some people its like a rule to shove all in with such cards, till their limit, the majority of the players playing exactly like that. So for me it wasnt a surprise.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by jovicakralj: To go all in is OK since you have blocker and fold equity but to call someones all in...
I assume you know pot odds? Then I dont see why there is any more arguing.. I assume they went on preflop with pot raises,which means isildur already had $8100 invested (over 1/3 of his stack) when sahemis moved all in (for isildurs effective stack at least),which means his 5-bet commited him anyways. Up until the 5-bet you can talk about fold equity. When Sahemis 6-bet isildur has to invest $13200 to win $42600. That equals pot odds better than 2:1,meaning he has to call with any 4 cards basicly after this kind of play. However,the range of sahemis is knowingly very wide so either way it's mathematicly probably right to call even if the odds were slightly worse.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by jovicakralj: To go all in is OK since you have blocker and fold equity but to call someones all in...
I assume you know pot odds? Then I dont see why there is any more arguing.. I assume they went on preflop with pot raises,which means isildur already had $8100 invested (over 1/3 of his stack) when sahemis moved all in (for isildurs effective stack at least),which means his 5-bet commited him anyways. Up until the 5-bet you can talk about fold equity. When Sahemis 6-bet isildur has to invest $13200 to win $42600. That equals pot odds better than 2:1,meaning he has to call with any 4 cards basicly after this kind of play. However,the range of sahemis is knowingly very wide so either way it's mathematicly probably right to call even if the odds were slightly worse.
Then why did he 4bet that crap of hand when he knows that he commit himself? To set Ilari for later? NO. Because they have history, one hand doesnt change thing. You can justify every move on nosebleeds. Thing is that for stakes he is playing he is poor player. Thats my opinion.
And would you say that is mathematicly right to open shove all in into guy who have 2000$ on table (50/100$blinds HU NL holdem game) with 47off? He did that after he done playing PLO against Ilari.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I wouldn't ever consider such a call, but maybe that's why I'm sitting at home in front of my computer playing the micros. I don't want to say they're Donks due to their reputations in the poker worl, but anyone else that would call on that (ametuers) would definitely be considered a donk call. Nice post jovica and Good Luck to All!
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by jovicakralj: Then why did he 4bet that crap of hand when he knows that he commit himself? To set Ilari for later? NO. Because they have history, one hand doesnt change thing. You can justify every move on nosebleeds. Thing is that for stakes he is playing he is poor player. Thats my opinion.
And would you say that is mathematicly right to open shove all in into guy who have 2000$ on table (50/100$blinds HU NL holdem game) with 47off? He did that after he done playing PLO against Ilari.
Sorry just saw this post - For the stakes he plays he is an awesome player. The style he plays wouldnt work at midstakes or even lower,because peoples usual style is just the standard TAG style which is a very good adaption style against isildurs style.
And the 47o hand,iirc the guy had only 1.4K or something,and it seemed like it was his entire bankroll,meaning he will call shoves very tight. If we assume he calls a shove with only 9% of hands (would be very tight but not unlikely for someone in that situation) then it's mathematicly a good spot to shove any2. In 10/11 cases he will gain $100 from the shove,for the times he gets called he needs to win an average of $400 longterm from 1.4K,which equals 28% equity. Vs. a 9% Range 47o has 29% equity,so mathematicly in this scenario it'd be a good shove. I doubt he was thinking that deep tho,he probably just wanted to get rid off the shortstack from the table...
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 217
all nonsens - he played his opponent, not his cards. the only idea of it that comes to me, while thinking about isildurs starters. if it would have been double suited at least ... and even then you need a friendly flop ... no, i don´t like it. it´s not completely garbage but nothing to burn the roof down with.
