Joined: May '09
Location: Canada
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 5
hi guys and gals,
U ever notice that in a tournament some guy will shove UTG and u so happen to have a monster pair or at least top 25 hand that would make it wrong for you to fold so u call and see that the moron who obviously suffers from hyper activity related to lack of action has put all his marbles in with trash and your call was correct but lo and behold the ****ing dealer pos programm gives him the winning hand, now i ve seen this move many times before and most of all the times he wins.
as well as you have people chasing down 3 outs at best and manage to hit it on river to give them the winning hand, when in all reality they were down to 4% chance. HOW the **** can 4% chance win it 45% of time?now i not saying that their is cheating involved, but something is not right with online poker, it s almost as if they have to let the weakest player win......
is it my bad luck that allows me to see this and lose most times? On average I noticed 8 out of 10 times weakest caller wins it over the best hand on some miracle runner runner or river save.
i know poker is a 5 card game but the experts put on bunch of stats and all of them say that the best hand wins it more often in the long run,Why is my pocket KK never shows me the money but instead the door out of the tournemant. Just cause some low life couldnt fold a3 the must let him flop one 3 and then hit the last one on river?or ace it on river? u shove on AQ and kq calls to hit 2 pairs?aa vs j10 to finish with a str8?
my poker tracker shows me that i won more on rags 10-8s than i have on biig hands like Ak,KK or even AA.
I am getting more and more convinced by the day that its set up.. Heres and example that happened to me yesterday in a $10 MTT on PS
I pick up QQ in on the button.. Blinds are 100/200..
player UTG raises to 400. Player in middle position calls. I raise from the button up to 1600 to try take it there and then. The UTG player folds whilst the other player calls.
The flop comes down Q 10 8. I c-bet for 3k and he shoves all in. I am committed anyway so call his all in. What else am I supposed to do..
The idiot has only called my re-raise with J 9 and happens to flop the stone cold nuts...
So after that I sit and watch the game a bit and sure enough the same player does exactly the same thing again.
Loose player raises, a shortstack shoves all in. The next to act re-raises. It folds around to the BB and he calls for 45% of his stack. The flop comes down A 2 3 and the BB shoves all in. THe other player calls him and what do they have.. The BB has 4 5 offsuit whilst the other poor sucker has AA..
Its just ridiculous that this happens time and time again and still people say its "100% random"
Its crazy that people can say "theres no way it can be rigged". Theres no proof either way that it is or isnt being rigged. Neither side can prove it, yet anyone who dares suggest it is is laughed at..
The absolute best bit, is that not one poker site ever has allowed 100% access to find out if their sites are indeed geniune. They provide you with certificates that say they've had their RNGs tested, but no one has ever been allowed to look at that data and more importantly no independant scrutiny has ever been allowed into poker sites. The only people that are allowed to check what happens at a poker site are the poker sites themselves and companies who the pokersites pay to report on their activities.. There is no official body that is allowed to take the information and process it and report on it.
Why wont the poker sites allow independant scrutiny.. well that is an answer that no one can give...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
They all come out..
Also ^ They DO allow independent scrutiny.. What do you think their licenses are?
------------
Posted by fcumred: The absolute best bit, is that not one poker site ever has allowed 100% access to find out if their sites are indeed geniune. They provide you with certificates that say they've had their RNGs tested, but no one has ever been allowed to look at that data and more importantly no independant scrutiny has ever been allowed into poker sites. The only people that are allowed to check what happens at a poker site are the poker sites themselves and companies who the pokersites pay to report on their activities.. There is no official body that is allowed to take the information and process it and report on it.
Why wont the poker sites allow independant scrutiny.. well that is an answer that no one can give...
Those certificates are independent scrutiny. And I for one would not want anyone else to have access to the data.. The reason people aren't able to go through their code willy nilly is because that would be an incredible security flaw.
------------ Arg.. Can't believe I'm taking the bait and responding to these rejects...
I guess it's a laugh..
Fcumred - you write "I am getting more and more convinced by the day that its set up.." as if your opinion is anything other than another ordinary rigtard. Every single time there is a thread like this on the forum you've thrown in your 2c about how you think it might be rigged. You have ALWAYS been a rigtard. And the reason it seems to you "I am getting more and more convinced by the day that its set up.." is because you refuse to explore any other possibilities.
Just face it, not many people make it in this game, there is a reason it is generally viewed as degenerate gambling.. For most people, that is all it is. Get over it.
------------ And I love that ALL OF YOU just post literally individual hands to illustrate your point.. Then usually either go on about how you sat and watched it for a while and sure enough "crazy theory X" proved right time and again.
Or better yet, after posting a hand, just make up some statistics regarding how often it happens.. "So this happened in this hand AND I've noticed it happens 82% of the time I'm in this situation".. Oh really?
Well how come every single freaking time somebody analyses massive samples of HH (you can look up studies of over 1mil hands FYI) none of this BS ever shows up ?? Huh? WHY do you think that may be? Seriously..Why do you think that is?
------------ If I post a hand showing how I won with AA, does that prove it isn't rigged? I just need a single hand right?
Oh - and is it definitely right if Ialso go on to state, that not only did I win during my hand with AA, but noticed a couple other people on my table also got dealt AA and they won too! OMG - All I need to do is copy and paste some a single hand history.. Oh wait - f**k me, not even, I just have to vagually describe a hand I once played:
I picked up AA UTG and done a sneaky little limp towards my aggressive table.. Sure enough MP raises and gets on caller from the button, I hit it allin and MP calls and the button folds. MP flips AQs, the board doesn't help him and I smash it up and take his stack. Good times. Then later I noticed a few others also going in with AA and they won too. And and some dude even won KK vs A5, no ace came to save the A5 and he was eliminated from the game.
Have I proven it is not rigged now? Seriously, this is how your post is.. That is how you're arguing.
Oh also - Live poker is rigged too. Check this s**t, total undeniable proof (i.e; a single hand illustrating a runner runner turn, river):
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I started thinking like that towards the end of today, but some days I do well. I've been beat down in every SnG / tourney I played in today and no, none of them are for high stakes, but my BR didn't increase a bit today. I usually can place in a $1.10 + SnG, but what I thought were donk plays by some actually made me look like the donk. Getting killed by 2's, the mighty luck flush draw and other hands I don't want to remember.
I don't think I should place every SnG / tourney, but this was a sad day! Sorry to whine in your thread. Good Luck to All!
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 1372
"HOW the **** can 4% chance win it 45% of time?"
Memory is a very subjective thing and I doubt that these figures are remotely accurate. If you can't back them up with statistical data then you're just blowing hot air.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
the biggest problem with most rigtards is that most of them dont understand what they are saying. randomness is a concept >95% of rigtards dont understand
in terms of statistics random outcome is not fixed and not haphazard fixed will mean predictable and haphazard will mean improbable and biased. a random system is unpredictable but still unbiased and probable
all the % outcomes are valid only on an infinite sample so if you keep looking at a small sample you will get different %, but as sample size increases the observed % value approaches true %
if u wanna understand how RNG works, try rolling a dice for a large sample size and then you can cry RIGGED when u get the same number >2 times
Posted by fcumred: Neither side can prove it, yet anyone who dares suggest it is is laughed at..
no sir, we dont laugh at u suggesting its rigged but at your biased reasoning and level of thinking behind this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH_Y52NMyUU - this headsup championship is rigged as well. Look ivey lost vs J-9. OMG OMG HOW???? AND SCOTTY NGUYEN IS FOOL i mean J-9 RIGGED.
Cant stress enough how irrelevant this whole thread is.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 686
Ah yeah and guys, dont forget Illuminati's controls the world of poker. EVERY SINGLE LOBBY IS HELD BY THE MASONICS. They managed to biased all the poker softwares then EVERY SINGLE player goes on tilt because of badbeats !!! Omg and care when you got a pair of 6's, because it means their satanic eye is on u °_°'
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi guys.
4% don´t win the 45% of time, of course. If you really think tha sites are rigged (making that 4%-45% possible) the best you can do is quit poker (why play in a rigged site?).
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by Chartoule: the best you can do is quit poker
Or actually put your money where your mouth is and start shoving your 2-outters, runner runner draws, etc.
------------ The other reason rigged RNG theories always seems so implausible tome is this:
With cheating (UB/AP), FTP management, collusion, bots, etc - it is different - we're talking about individuals or syndicates (collusion rings) acting on their own for their own interests.. This is human behavior.. In fact, even in high-end financial collapses it is often just individuals at the top screwing the system (pyramid schemes etc).
Cheating is not only plausible, it is fact and in some respects, rife.
Rigged RNG however is a whole other thing.. This instead relies on so many parties (who are not direct beneficiaries) being complicit to the scam - the programmers in particular come to mind.. Creating a working system of a rigged RNG that can't easily be exploited or discovered is an enormous project.. How come non of these programmers (of cheating RNGs) have never spoken out.
Not only that, any RNG code that allowed for this would be easily spotted by the people who license/provide the certifications.. This means those groups must also be complacent. So not only are people who are not directly benefiting from the actions being intricately involved in the scam, but none of them are EVER speaking out!!
This, I just cannot buy. It makes no sense.
And then further - if you consider the scenarios involved the actually benefit the poker rooms (obviously a rigged RNG needs to generate more rake and fees) - these very rarely match a rigtard theory and what is more, the individual hands a rigtard posts to support his theory, very often don't actually appear to support the theory.. Not only this, on any given room the rigtards state a bunch of contradictory theories - take MTTs for example - on a single table you'll have one rigtard tell you the big stacks always win the allin and another tell you the small stacks do. Sometimes it is the bad players who are rewarded - other times it is the selected elite - hand picked to be winners.
None of it is coherent and none of it makes any sense when held to scrutiny.
This is why we laugh at you.
Edited by jessthehuman (03 January 2012 @ 09:25 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
The last time something like this happened to me was yesterday. I was in a little MTT and there was some guys who definitely were playing for the second time, no more than that, but they were trying to make an effort to look smart, although betting crazy with hands like A7, K8, A2… I was paying attention to those moves so I saw it wouldn’t be very difficult to send them home. And then I had that chance: AKh. I bet, one of them came with me. Flop brought two hearts, 7,4,2. I knew I could have already some pair, but still I bet, and again he just calls. The turn brings Jh, I bet, he went all in, I was surprised but went with him, he shows hand JJ, and the m*****f***ing river brought him a 2, which put him leading on that table. Now, what’s the reality of that data? Zero. Sometimes we just have to face it.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 686
Posted by jessthehuman:
And then further - if you consider the scenarios involved the actually benefit the poker rooms (obviously a rigged RNG needs to generate more rake and fees) - these very rarely match a rigtard theory and what is more, the individual hands a rigtard posts to support his theory, very often don't actually appear to support the theory.. Not only this, on any given room the rigtards state a bunch of contradictory theories - take MTTs for example - on a single table you'll have one rigtard tell you the big stacks always win the allin and another tell you the small stacks do. Sometimes it is the bad players who are rewarded - other times it is the selected elite - hand picked to be winners.
None of it is coherent and none of it makes any sense when held to scrutiny.
This is why we laugh at you.
Haha this Big stack - small stack theory xD "Yeah, they do this then the tournaments finishs earlier and they can program more tournaments and then make more money !!!!!". And the guy saying this is playing a daily tournament (which means there will be only one a day anyway... )
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
as strange as it sounds i spotted from my long career at various poker rooms my most profitable cards are 26 and 36...how this can happen lmfao i mean that's total rags, but i blow aa kk with them regularly, i even had 36 table name on one site... i know this is not serious but a strange thing to consider- lot's of theories about online poker being rigged sprung up all the time, and to be fair i really think there are lot's of chances to cheat- and lot's of ways to do that...when such giant like full tilt collapses and it end's up being nothing but a ponzi scheme how one can be sure about all the smaller sites...
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by kingoffools:
my poker tracker shows me that i won more on rags 10-8s than i have on biig hands like Ak,KK or even AA.
ane1 have an answer to that?
I truely do belive in what is called murphys law and in freerolls and low level tournys amoung other high stakes beleive me murphys law goes into full effect.
Murphys law: ANYTHING THAT CAN GO WRONG... WILL GO WRONG
I dont know how many times ive sat and ran clock with AK suited first hand cause some idiots all in with two callers and im killing myself telling myself i might as well fold it and ofcourse you just cant fold AK suited in that position cause as you said its suppose to win right? well thanks to good old murphy the A fcking 5 hits two fives on flop and you drawing slim to none or even none to none when the turn comes with your freaking ace.
I cant explain why this esspeically in online play but for some reason bad play gets rewarded 9 times out of 10
sucks boys and girls but we are mobster we are good solid players and know how to over come
Joined: May '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 81
hello all , some interestin little facts from both sides lol... but after all is said and done online poker is a business, yes. there to make cash, which explains that since yanks banned they have now unopened the mass that is asia, russians etc.... and why u will continue to hear people complain about bad players gettin toooooooooo lucky... do they reward newbies more to get them hooked , are the russians getting a good run from sites , who knows lol.... but in stead of moanin and arguing over it , get off ur arses and support ur local casino,s .... plenty of live games out there now so get of ur backsides geeeeeeeeeeeks and join the humans out and about lol...
Joined: Dec '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 70 (M)
Posts: 206
kingoffools has it in his book as a 5 card game, mm if you think about it it isnt its the best hand of 5 cards from the 7 cards awailable to all players.
Thats why we keep getting hit with sh-te so often but I also have to agree with you that ther must be more bad beats online than in live play.
The only reason that we may see it more is that online you are involved in more hands than you are live, mm food for thought me thinks.
