Joined: May '09
Location: India
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first of all, you make a good point in the first post
Posted by retribution: Positive Reinforcement
As humans, we react in a positive way to positive reinforcement. This can be related to a child, who gets praise from his parents for cleaning his room. It s natural that he would react in a positive way to their praise. Conversely, he would react negatively if they were to scold him because he didn t clean it. This positive psychology relates to poker as well.
but your idea of positive reinforcement/operant conditioning is kinda messed up it may be correct to use the term in casual english but it has different implications in psychology
positive reinforcement is type of operant conditioning where desirable behavior is followed by a reward (favorable change in environment) like in the first example.
your second example is punishment punishment is a type of operant conditioning where undesirable behavior is followed by a painful stimuli. i dont understand what do u want to imply with "negatively" in this context as most people will treat final outcome as positive
though punishment is not good for long term learning compared to extinction but in this case extinction is kinda useless unless there is positive reinforcement in past/future.
but most important- operant conditioning (and positive reinforcement) is a mechanism of unconsciously learning the association between a behavior and a reinforcing event. its not a mechanism for maintenance of the behavior.
-player plays focused -> player wins money (positive reinforcement) - player plays in tilt mode -> player loses money (punishment)
learning tilt control is more similar to avoidance learning/ secondary reward conditioning
- player has a badbeat-> player tries random things to focus -> player avoids goin on tilt -> player wins money (avoidance learning)
- player thinks about positive things -> player stays focused -> player wins money ( secondary reward conditioning)
but here reinforcing event is inconsistent (due to variance), non specific and may be delayed etc so conditioning is not good. and strength of conditioning depends on intelligence of person, susceptibility to various stimuli, external factors etc leading to spurious association ( poker is rigged, AA is not good starting hand) or indirect associations ( weekends are more profitable)
so most of the people end up learning basics of tilt control from forums, books, friends via social learning mechanisms such as role modelling/ identification/human interactions.
anyway one way or other, a tested method of tilt control is registered in long term memory. it then becomes part of super-ego ( part of personality containing moral standards, ideals, sense of right/wrong)
now after a bad day at poker: Id ( part of personality with unconscious, instinctive, primitive tendencies) tends to focus on negative things and superego wants to maintain focus and concentration by positive thinking. this creates a conflict between Id and super-ego which is resolved by ego using mature defense mechanisms of Suppression and Humor ( most important in this context). and they are involved in maintenance of tilt control behavior not positive reinforcement
Joined: Mar '08
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@retribution could not see your e-mail, so tweeted the the pic I quickly chucked together, as said in tweet can alter or if you don't like give some idea of what you would like.
Joined: Apr '09
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This is very well done. If BRM still had that campaign they had a few years ago of rewarding good articles with more points, this should be one of the rewarded. It is very clarifying, and you even explain what is the best to do when one thinks he Is in tilt.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
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Posted by B1gfoot: @retribution could not see your e-mail, so tweeted the the pic I quickly chucked together, as said in tweet can alter or if you don't like give some idea of what you would like.
Hey, I checked my twitter and I couldn't find a message
Thanks all for the encouraging remarks, I'll have to remember to post my next one
Posted by SuperNoob: positive reinforcement is type of operant conditioning where desirable behavior is followed by a reward (favorable change in environment) like in the first example. . . .
Interesting posting SuperNoob!
The other day I read an article about conditioning. One of the things that was explained, is how the effectiveness of conditioning, and the longevity of the conditioning is greatly increased, if, after the brain has associated a certain behavior with a reward, the frequency of the reward is decreased.
By not always getting the reward, the brain is tricked, if you will, into persevering with the behavior.
I wonder if this is what makes poker so addictive, and if this mechanism was ever purposely exploited, to increase the addictive power of gambling; for example by letting newcomers win more often, to nurture and develop their addiction.
Joined: Aug '08
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Posted by marqis:
Posted by SuperNoob: positive reinforcement is type of operant conditioning where desirable behavior is followed by a reward (favorable change in environment) like in the first example. . . .
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by marqis:
Posted by SuperNoob: positive reinforcement is type of operant conditioning where desirable behavior is followed by a reward (favorable change in environment) like in the first example. . . .
Interesting posting SuperNoob!
The other day I read an article about conditioning. One of the things that was explained, is how the effectiveness of conditioning, and the longevity of the conditioning is greatly increased, if, after the brain has associated a certain behavior with a reward, the frequency of the reward is decreased.
By not always getting the reward, the brain is tricked, if you will, into persevering with the behavior.
I wonder if this is what makes poker so addictive, and if this mechanism was ever purposely exploited, to increase the addictive power of gambling; for example by letting newcomers win more often, to nurture and develop their addiction.
I heard a story once, about elephants that are captured at a very young age for circuses. When the elephant is very young, they put a very strong iron cuff with a chain on the elephants leg. Try as they might, the elephant cannot break the chain and slowly gets used to it. As the elphant gets older, it stops fighting it altogether, and they then can use a weaker chain/cuff, or even a rope. As the elephant has spent it's whole life used to it, it no longer tries to fight it, even though it could now easily break the weaker chain.
Oh, ps bigfoot I found the header graphic, absolutely LOVE it many many thanks. Will put it up and a special thank you post when I get a few minutes
Joined: Mar '08
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WTF did you use to rescale, check out that tweet link again, have re-scaled and sharpened for you, its a bit off but was a quick fix to make look better, feel free to give me dimensions, only takes a second to sort.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by B1gfoot: WTF did you use to rescale, check out that tweet link again, have re-scaled and sharpened for you, its a bit off but was a quick fix to make look better, feel free to give me dimensions, only takes a second to sort.
I use paint.net a free editing app uhmmm it's 980 wide by 140 tall it obviously doesn't scale well the app I use that is. Appreciate the help.
