Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
I like to think that I'm a half decent player, but recently I've been noticing there's some spots where I just don't have a clue what to do. So I'm creating this thread with 3 examples, and other mobsters can say what they think would be the right move, and also post spots where they don't know what to also. I'm doing 3 examples for now but will probably come across more as this thread goes on and will post them also.
Example 1: You're in a 6 max tournament with all players still left in, blinds 25/50, you have 8 9 on the button. You've been playing tight so far, and still have most of your original 2000 chips with roughly 1900. A fairly loose player in the HJ min raises. What do you do? Do you just limp because of position on the button, or continue with tightness until you get a better hand?
Example 2: 1st hand of the game in a 10 player SNG you've got 66 in the HJ. UTG raises to 80, and 3 players limp from middle position. Do you just fold? Limp? Or come over the top with a big raise to try and isolate somebody?
Example 3: You've got 4200 chips in a 10 player SNG, on the bubble with 4 players left, the blinds are 150/300. You're 2nd in chips on the button with A 10 . One of the short stacks is on the bb with 1100 chips. The person in 1st position on 5700 chips limps in. You limp in also. The other player folds out of the small blinds, the player in the big blind goes all in with 1100. The big stack then raises to 2800. What do you? I feel this ones fold or shove.
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 3871
I feel the need to show the donk inside me
Hand 1 Limp is not an option for me. If it was a 10-handed I would fold waiting for a better hand cause I decided to play tight; but as it's a 6-handed and I'm in position I'd 3bet him (3bet-fold would be my line here) showing some strenght and (eventually) playing in position postflop evaluating flop and oppo behaviour.
Hand 2
Call for set value if me and at least one of oppoes have chips 1600 (20 times the bet)
Hand 3
I would not be in this situation: I wouldn't limp here. Bubble time here: exploit the bubble or wait 'til it bursts. Chipleader is in the pot: probably I'd fold. Pushing allin is not a bad move either imho. Anyway at this time I should have some read on chipleader and would consider these reads.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
These are all SnG's as I understand it?
I have a VERY defined strategy for Micro SnG's (see my posts if you can find them). In fact it's basic mathematical SnG strategy. SnG's are a "solved" game.
VERY tight early, loosening up as people get kicked out and blinds are worth it. Push/Fold stage I get going mostly unless you get monsters or GREAT position limping with good hands. But try and hold that stack. Mostly folding.
1. Everyone still in Blinds are ridiculously low Fold
2. Lots of callers, you can try calling too, if you hit your set great, otherwise fold Or.... just fold and save your chips for the shoving stage.
3. You're on the Bubble in an SnG, 4th is all-in, the big stack is in....Fold! OBVIOUS Fold! The point is to make the money and ...only then...try to win the thing.
Try just folding in $5 and under SnG's and see where you end up. Sometimes in the money (really), often 4th or 5th. People just bust out real early because they don't know what they are doing. Watch a $500 SnG, you'll see lots of folds until the blinds are high, and enough people still in it when the Push/Fold stage starts. That's how you play the 1-table SnG's. It's pure mathematics. Multi-table SnG's are different. Good Luck!
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
This is a good question for me to be anobserver and see what type of feedback it brings. I'm generally a tight player as it is so I would have folded all three hands especially the 1st hand. I don't play suited runners early. Also, the last hand with the A,10 before the money hands start. I would have folded, but really interested in everyone's replies myself.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
I know these are all questionable spots where any move could be correct, depending on who is perceiving the situation. I put the first two examples early in the game because I've noticed these are some of the spots where the tight aggressive strategy can go wrong, sometimes limping is the most profitable way to play. Albeit the most risky way also, from an equity perspective. I've noticed I've been missing some spots where the raise the was pretty weak an if I would have just limped I would have flopped sets or been in a spot where I could get creative post flop.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by sadamman: I like to think that I'm a half decent player, but recently I've been noticing there's some spots where I just don't have a clue what to do. So I'm creating this thread with 3 examples, and other mobsters can say what they think would be the right move, and also post spots where they don't know what to also. I'm doing 3 examples for now but will probably come across more as this thread goes on and will post them also.
Example 1: You're in a 6 max tournament with all players still left in, blinds 25/50, you have 8 9 on the button. You've been playing tight so far, and still have most of your original 2000 chips with roughly 1900. A fairly loose player in the HJ min raises. What do you do? Do you just limp because of position on the button, or continue with tightness until you get a better hand?
Example 2: 1st hand of the game in a 10 player SNG you've got 66 in the HJ. UTG raises to 80, and 3 players limp from middle position. Do you just fold? Limp? Or come over the top with a big raise to try and isolate somebody?
Example 3: You've got 4200 chips in a 10 player SNG, on the bubble with 4 players left, the blinds are 150/300. You're 2nd in chips on the button with A 10 . One of the short stacks is on the bb with 1100 chips. The person in 1st position on 5700 chips limps in. You limp in also. The other player folds out of the small blinds, the player in the big blind goes all in with 1100. The big stack then raises to 2800. What do you? I feel this ones fold or shove.
Example 3, definitely fold. No sense risking bubbling, when you can fold and likely watch the BB bust out. Once you're ITM, you can open up. Folding is definitely +ev in this spot, I'd never say call the big stacks 2800 raise in this spot, as you're committed once you do.
Hands 1 and 2, I see no harm in folding, especially if you're closing the action. Suited connectors are monsters in multi-way pots believe it or not.
If you're ever in a spot you're not sure what to do, think about what the outcome of each action would be. Will folding leave you a decent stack? Try and figure out what your equity is, and if it's worth playing that spot. ICM is king in STT especially, and if you must err, I say err on the side of caution and just fold if you're unsure.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
I post my opinion cos I need advise, too .
Hand 1.
6 handed - depend on feeling and history. 40 % I just LIMP IN. see the flop , if have chance straight or flush with small bet ( max half pot ) I will bet, more than half pot I will fold ( except had strong feeling and history- how chance straight and flush ). If 10 handed usually I fold.
Hand 2. LIMP IN, others just limp in. Normally they had trouble maker hand, small or medium s/os connector. Chance to win is not too bad.
Hand 3. FOLD. the 1st position ( chips leader) seems had good hand, maybe BB had good hand, too.
Note : my opinion base on my experience, seldom had properly/ good hand to play. Usually at middle or late tournament I got card dead too long ( almost an hour), so I could do nothing, many time I even no had change to bluff. So I have to try play every properly hand I get.( ex :66 ) I can't play like Islandjack or I will never get prize ( just finish in bubble )
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
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1. We don't end the action and we are only 40BB deep. If one of the blinds repops, we have to fold, if we miss the flop, we have to fold, if we hit one pair, we are in a limbo. I would fold here.
2. Is 66 an unbeatable monster? I wouldn't play it hart, cause we will have a flip at best. Calling for setvalue is an option, but a fold wouldn't be a mistake either.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
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Example 4: In a 6 max tournament out of 520 people 450 left, blinds 15/30. In the small blind with JJ, stack 1850 out of the original 2000. UTG raises to 100, UTG +1 re raises to 200, the player on the button then pops a 4 bet of 600. Fold? Or shove? I'd like people to also guess what they had here.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by sadamman: Example 4: In a 6 max tournament out of 520 people 450 left, blinds 15/30. In the small blind with JJ, stack 1850 out of the original 2000. UTG raises to 100, UTG +1 re raises to 200, the player on the button then pops a 4 bet of 600. Fold? Or shove? I'd like people to also guess what they had here.
For me depends on the buyin, low buyin i shove, middle and high i fold. In the old days after raise/reraise/reraise this means sometin like AQ/QQ/AA or AK/KK/AA, but nowadays it can be anything for example JQs/99/AK or A6/KQ/TT.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
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Posted by doomdy:
Posted by sadamman: Example 4: In a 6 max tournament out of 520 people 450 left, blinds 15/30. In the small blind with JJ, stack 1850 out of the original 2000. UTG raises to 100, UTG +1 re raises to 200, the player on the button then pops a 4 bet of 600. Fold? Or shove? I'd like people to also guess what they had here.
For me depends on the buyin, low buyin i shove, middle and high i fold. In the old days after raise/reraise/reraise this means sometin like AQ/QQ/AA or AK/KK/AA, but nowadays it can be anything for example JQs/99/AK or A6/KQ/TT.
The buy in was $2.25 freezeout, yeah I agree that in the modern game they could have anything here with there being so many sickos online. Which Is why I think it was tricky, I was in the SB (2nd best position preflop), and I just couldn't process this one. I'll post the outcome when I get more replies.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Switzerland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 122
hello
In the first example I would limp. It's not much money and you can have on the flop a flush draw or a straight draw. In the second example I would fold. I rarely play the first hand in a tourney except AA KK QQ or something like that. With 66 against 4 other players your odds are not very good. In the last situation I would also fold. If you call and you loose you leave the tourney without any money, but if the bigstack wins you are in the money. In this situation I would say that the bigstack has played wrong. When you are 4 people left and the first 3 are in the money, you should look that someone (the smallstack) looses. And so in this situation as bigstack I had called.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
well the more i think about your examples the more i believe there is no one correct way to play the situations- i would prefer to limp in first 2, and go all in/ raise in the last one, but it depends on what state of mind i am in/how drunk is also a factor , also take into account how well have you been doing lately- are you on a heater? then just fire away
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
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Don't think many people noticed this example so I'll quote it to see if it sparks any more interest:
Posted by sadamman: Example 4: In a 6 max tournament out of 520 people 450 left, blinds 15/30. In the small blind with JJ, stack 1850 out of the original 2000. UTG raises to 100, UTG +1 re raises to 200, the player on the button then pops a 4 bet of 600. Fold? Or shove? I'd like people to also guess what they had here.
Posted by sadamman: $2.25 freezeout
And a new example: Example 5: In a satellite for a 10k tournament, 40 left out of 200, top 10 get entry. Your stack is 12,000 just high - midstack on your table but with 2 bigger stacks, one of them in the BB. Your UTG+1 with 22, blinds are 250/500. Do you limp and see the flop to try and set mine? Or is it an easy fold?
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
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Posts: 6197
Posted by sadamman: Example 5: In a satellite for a 10k tournament, 40 left out of 200, top 10 get entry. Your stack is 12,000 just high - midstack on your table but with 2 bigger stacks, one of them in the BB. Your UTG+1 with 22, blinds are 250/500. Do you limp and see the flop to try and set mine? Or is it an easy fold?
Fold for me, not intrested in winning, just want to get itm in a sat.
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 52 (M)
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My answers for the three example hands: 1. easy call versus a loose player 2. easy fold at the beginning of the SnG 3. easy fold. I had call the AI from the shorty but never the reraise from the other player.
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