Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Posted by Don99: What would you say if I slow played them all. Everyone would say, well slowplay was a mistake. What are you gonna say now, going all in when you have the strongest hand (apart from that QJ) is a mistake? So with such experience I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning. Of course some people have to win. It's the same with casinos in real life and any other machines, someone has to win something but majority can't because it is industry that doesn't let you.
'It doesn't favour or cheat any one but its rigged.'
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Canada
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 658
I poke fun because the premise poker is rigged is fallacious to me. If i have a business plan that assures profits so long as im open there is no way im going to start conning my customers. These poker sites are run by boards and have investors. None of them would ever compromise a sure thing for extra money. If like AB there is a superuser issue then im sure that is the result of a rogue agent acting on his own.
The most important thing i can say is if you are so jaded then it seems logical that you're being cheated then i suggest you stop playing. Also for your given examples you would need to show somehow that the poker site knew the guy with 1010 or kk or jj would call behind. Its so dynamic making such a algorithm would be more trouble then its worth and likely filled with bugs. I mean most of these sites can't figure out simple issues let alone the type of programming you're talking about.
Posted by Don99: Most of you are taking a piss on this whole subject like you are all winning thousands of dollars. There is no proof for anything but I believe poker online is an industry that works for profit, not for us players to win. Of course some people will win but most won't. You can have fun with comedian comments, that's fine with me, humour is good I admit I had laughed as well. Anyway just finished all of my won bonus money, I mean I lost 18 dollars I had left after losing those $40 mentioned in my first post. Since I went down to $18 I was super tight, decided to play (0.01/0.02) only pairs and call or reraise with AA KK QQ JJ. This is how I lost those $18.
AA (raised 0.18) vs KK - went all in after flop 2 4 8 and the guy hit K on the river AA (raised 0.20 as dealer) went all in after flop 992 and guess what this guy had 89 77 just a call 0.02 went all in after flop 6 7 K and the guy didn't raise his QQ hits Q on the river 1010 called a raise 0.08 and went all in after flop 10 4 J and the guy gets JJ on turn and river to survive with his KK KK reraised to 0.28 a guy who raised 0.08 with QQ....after flop 776 I go all in and the guy gets Q on the river AA vs AA all in before the flop I lost because this guy got a flush with his A of spades on the river 99 called a raise 0.08 and went all in after flop 9AJ and the guy with 1010 got his 10 on the river
All of this happened while playing 6 tables and total of 788 hands. Also a good question is, how come I always manage to clear any bonus given without problems plus on the way of clearing I manage to make profit. After some time I can't do anything anymore and I just lose everything. I am forced to play those big hands, just look at those last 7 hands I lost. What would you say if I slow played them all. Everyone would say, well slowplay was a mistake. What are you gonna say now, going all in when you have the strongest hand (apart from that QJ) is a mistake? So with such experience I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning. Of course some people have to win. It's the same with casinos in real life and any other machines, someone has to win something but majority can't because it is industry that doesn't let you. Maybe story is different with high stakes online because people would be more scared to call my all ins but I can't talk about high stakes as I never played them. Maybe higher stakes come closest to fair playing and micro and middle stakes are just for suckers like most of us are.
Nice story but i am asking you what benefits the Poker sites have when they "steal" or call it how you want your money and give it to another player who is sitting somewhere in the world. Secondly you showed us 7 out of 788 hands that is less than 1 percent of your played hands but how often you have won with pairs in 80/20 situations for making such accusations you have to look all the Hands and not just the "bad beats". And also how many "Bad Beats" you have given to other players. I think if i look that for my stats it is nearly equal and also the percentages of win and lost in the Hands are really normal after all my played Hands.
And if you say it is rigged you have to proof something and not say i have played 788 and lost 7 with good hands, the percentage is over 10000 Hands and than it is equal to the percentage that every Hand has. So you have to look at 100 or 1000 with KK vs QQ how often you win and lose and than i think you are really near to the percentage that is normal.
I am out of this that rigged or not rigged threads are so useless cause if you think it is rigged then stop playing online and go to a poker club or casino but stop spamming the forum with such threads.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by Don99: Most of you are taking a piss on this whole subject like you are all winning thousands of dollars. There is no proof for anything but I believe poker online is an industry that works for profit, not for us players to win. Of course some people will win but most won't. You can have fun with comedian comments, that's fine with me, humour is good I admit I had laughed as well. Anyway just finished all of my won bonus money, I mean I lost 18 dollars I had left after losing those $40 mentioned in my first post. Since I went down to $18 I was super tight, decided to play (0.01/0.02) only pairs and call or reraise with AA KK QQ JJ. This is how I lost those $18.
AA (raised 0.18) vs KK - went all in after flop 2 4 8 and the guy hit K on the river AA (raised 0.20 as dealer) went all in after flop 992 and guess what this guy had 89 77 just a call 0.02 went all in after flop 6 7 K and the guy didn't raise his QQ hits Q on the river 1010 called a raise 0.08 and went all in after flop 10 4 J and the guy gets JJ on turn and river to survive with his KK KK reraised to 0.28 a guy who raised 0.08 with QQ....after flop 776 I go all in and the guy gets Q on the river AA vs AA all in before the flop I lost because this guy got a flush with his A of spades on the river 99 called a raise 0.08 and went all in after flop 9AJ and the guy with 1010 got his 10 on the river
All of this happened while playing 6 tables and total of 788 hands. Also a good question is, how come I always manage to clear any bonus given without problems plus on the way of clearing I manage to make profit. After some time I can't do anything anymore and I just lose everything. I am forced to play those big hands, just look at those last 7 hands I lost. What would you say if I slow played them all. Everyone would say, well slowplay was a mistake. What are you gonna say now, going all in when you have the strongest hand (apart from that QJ) is a mistake? So with such experience I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning. Of course some people have to win. It's the same with casinos in real life and any other machines, someone has to win something but majority can't because it is industry that doesn't let you. Maybe story is different with high stakes online because people would be more scared to call my all ins but I can't talk about high stakes as I never played them. Maybe higher stakes come closest to fair playing and micro and middle stakes are just for suckers like most of us are.
I´ll approach it from another viewpoint then. (keep in mind, I don´t say it´s NOT rigged, but I won´t say it is because my bankroll keeps going up when I play, not down, so you would be implying that you have been "targeted" or something, because a lot of us just don´t experience what you are describing)
But:
Have you ever watched the WSOP on TV? Take last year´s. There are less than 7.000 players in the Tournament. It is comparable to a max 7.000 man tournament on PS or PP, or whatever.
Have you seen what happens there? The suckouts, the bad beats, the incredible flops and action? And this is just 1 (one) tournament, like there are thousands running all day on all sites.
Have you watched this? If you haven´t, you should. Then you will understand that this happens all the time, be it live or online.
It´s not rigged, and it´s less than 7.000 people playing 1 tournament. The odds are just SO close in Poker.
Some advice:
You should download PokerStove and run through it a bit.
You´ll see what the odds really are. AK vs 23 = 23 will win 33 % of the time. Yet when it happens at the table, we all say...Damn! that´s crazy!!!
NO ITS NOT! It will happen 1 out of 3 times.
And this goes on and on for all types of combinations. That´s why higher limit players who have studied all this stuff thouroughly will not complain about "rigged" sites. It´s just statistics. ie. Poker.
I hope that helps to understand the whole thing, otherwise why keep playing? Really? If you believe what you write THAT strongly, you are not doing yourself any favours by continuing to play, right?
It´s really THAT simple. Believe and play. Or mistrust and quit. There really are only 2 options in the end.
That´s why we don´t want to hear incessant whining about "online poker being rigged" In or out, and then lets talk tactics and theory. The rest is meaningless as I mentioned above. Play and learn....or Quit....
It´s normal to think about it and question it, ask opinions etc. I have, as we all have. But then you have to make a decision.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by Don99: I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning.
too bad i was just gonna tell u why you are wrong
but still what are u trying to do here when u already made up your mind?
Posted by Don99: I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning.
too bad i was just gonna tell u why you are wrong
but still what are u trying to do here when u already made up your mind?
Why not tell me where I do wrong. Still nobody can't explain to me why I always clear bonuses. Sometimes it's only $5 I get and I from that I can build my bankroll to $100. I even had experiences where my bankroll goes from $100-200 down to only $3-4 and I can't lose them. Suddenly I start winning again but never can break my record of $300. I guess this game is strange because I don't disagree with most of the things you guys write here anyway. Why lot of you say what benefits do poker sites have?! MONEY! It's like saying why would poker machines or roullete be so hard to win in casinos. They don't exist for us, they exist for themselves to win money. If I worked for gambling industry I would try to make an image and send a message across that anyone can be a winner on any game just to drag more and more people to play. At the same time I would try to hire biggest computer and maths experts to make sure majority people don't win on anything I offer on tables, machines and any sort of games. It's like saying why people play lottery, don't they know they don't stand a big chance. I don't play every day, I just try to beat the software and usually come back to play as poker sites give me no deposit bonuses once they realise I haven't played for some time. I guess I'm a stubborn person which takes me back to tables. I don't mind losing, never deposited my own money and I have fun as long as it lasts. Reason why I posted here was just to hear other peoples opinion, like I said I'm fine with those who ridicule me, I don't mind.
Posted by Don99: I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning.
too bad i was just gonna tell u why you are wrong
but still what are u trying to do here when u already made up your mind?
Why not tell me where I do wrong. Still nobody can't explain to me why I always clear bonuses. Sometimes it's only $5 I get and I from that I can build my bankroll to $100. I even had experiences where my bankroll goes from $100-200 down to only $3-4 and I can't lose them. Suddenly I start winning again but never can break my record of $300. I guess this game is strange because I don't disagree with most of the things you guys write here anyway. Why lot of you say what benefits do poker sites have?! MONEY! It's like saying why would poker machines or roullete be so hard to win in casinos. They don't exist for us, they exist for themselves to win money. If I worked for gambling industry I would try to make an image and send a message across that anyone can be a winner on any game just to drag more and more people to play. At the same time I would try to hire biggest computer and maths experts to make sure majority people don't win on anything I offer on tables, machines and any sort of games. It's like saying why people play lottery, don't they know they don't stand a big chance. I don't play every day, I just try to beat the software and usually come back to play as poker sites give me no deposit bonuses once they realise I haven't played for some time. I guess I'm a stubborn person which takes me back to tables. I don't mind losing, never deposited my own money and I have fun as long as it lasts. Reason why I posted here was just to hear other peoples opinion, like I said I'm fine with those who ridicule me, I don't mind.
I know that the poker sites wants to make money with their sites but the don´t win any money if another player win against you they just got from the fees. And i don´t think they have special programms to get more action in the game cause like Island Jack said in big live tournaments are also a lot of Bad Beats, the only difference their is on live tournaments nobody play so crazy (or stupid) like on the poker sites
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by Don99:
Posted by SuperNoob:
Posted by Don99: I have come to a conclusion software is rigged for action, it doesn't favor or cheat for anyone but it prevents lot of people from winning.
too bad i was just gonna tell u why you are wrong
but still what are u trying to do here when u already made up your mind?
Why not tell me where I do wrong. Still nobody can't explain to me why I always clear bonuses. Sometimes it's only $5 I get and I from that I can build my bankroll to $100. I even had experiences where my bankroll goes from $100-200 down to only $3-4 and I can't lose them. Suddenly I start winning again but never can break my record of $300. I guess this game is strange because I don't disagree with most of the things you guys write here anyway. Why lot of you say what benefits do poker sites have?! MONEY! It's like saying why would poker machines or roullete be so hard to win in casinos. They don't exist for us, they exist for themselves to win money. If I worked for gambling industry I would try to make an image and send a message across that anyone can be a winner on any game just to drag more and more people to play. At the same time I would try to hire biggest computer and maths experts to make sure majority people don't win on anything I offer on tables, machines and any sort of games. It's like saying why people play lottery, don't they know they don't stand a big chance. I don't play every day, I just try to beat the software and usually come back to play as poker sites give me no deposit bonuses once they realise I haven't played for some time. I guess I'm a stubborn person which takes me back to tables. I don't mind losing, never deposited my own money and I have fun as long as it lasts. Reason why I posted here was just to hear other peoples opinion, like I said I'm fine with those who ridicule me, I don't mind.
I´m not ridiculing you,I am trying to say things as I see them and maybe give you the insights you need to either play without getting frustrated, or quit.
The major thing I have posted many times is that casino games and poker are COMPLETELY different.
Casino games are set up to give a "slight" percentage advantage to the casinos. It´s like roulette, the 0 is the "slight" percentage in favour of the casino, and guarantuees that nobody will win in the liong run except the Casino itself. But this is well known, well documented, and easily verifiable. ^ Poker is different in that you don´t play AGAINST the Casino, but against other players. The Casino makes it´s money off the Rake. It would be foolish to jeopardise that by fixing the software as well. sites like Pokerstars earn Millions of dollars every day just on the rake. smaller sites might want to increase their profit by rigging stuff, big sites would be stupid to do that. (the exceptions are things like Full Tilt, but that is plain thievery and had nothing to do with "rigged" software).
It keeps surprising me that so many people just don´t understand the difference between playing against the Casino, and playing against other people, with a "fixed" percentage going to the Casino just for providing the "setup" to play on. (I´m not saying YOU don´t, just many people don´t)
But you do mention different games, so i want to make this point VERY clear.
I know what i´m talking about, because my best friend was a Casino owner for years. He does NOT gamble, because he knows how it works. And so do I. He DOES play poker once in a while, as do I.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 2698
If you are not winning for 3 years then it is probably your playing style that is not working. I've played on Action poker AP, the players are extremely loose and you are going to get a lot of bad beats. I've won maybe $600-$700 on with the free bankroll from brm but I stopped playing there because it the client crashed often.
Only thing I suggest is reading some poker books, maybe Super System.. And look at the odds rather than the results. Also, don't play scared poker. Put your money in when you think you're good and in the long term you will win. Also, get some more free bankrolls and don't mind if you lose the money
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
after i read more and more of these so called rigged comments i decided ( a break even player, who has put money ,superhigh volumes ,time and lots of effort into online poker)
to do about the same in the coming year ,,but then concentrate on live tournaments ,,keep a log-book and compare these percantages with my online results,,
i had some confidence in making money online,, but that confidence is crushed,,,
for example,,i win win win,win,win,win,,, and he next day i lose ,lose lose lose lose ,,as if i am the new fish in town,,, no mather what i am up against,,, i miss ,they hit,, i miss they hit,,i miss they hit...
so i lose 50$, lose 60 $, lose 100$ in cashgames ,,,3 in a row ,,in about 30 minutes holding A-A , A-A , A-A
since this happened i stopped playingcash tables ,,thinking i was just unlucky,,,
but now i think... hmm ,very strange especialy ,because thee money i lose goes to other players and not to the pokersite,,so what is the purpose of this????(or are these players fictif)
still in great doubt...please help me out folks,,,
if someone says i am paranoid i cant even put anything against it...maybe i am..
'It doesn't favour or cheat any one but its rigged.' 
