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Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
With it being heads up its a snap call. I know you're meant to be aggressive and play basically anything HU, but to flop top pair you maybe should have pot bet even overbet the pot, then if he only called do it again, if he calls again, be prepared to shut down. I think hes slow played preflop and got you where he wants you. I put him on a9, but he could have 67 also.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
OK. I guessed that most of people will say call. Here is thing: Like I sad earlier guy that this guy is playing pretty passive and limping buttons so he play small pots. Also I didnt see him bluffing at all. When he min reraised me at flop I thought that he have at least 9 but I had lot of outs and it was cheap to call. After turn he checks and I thought that he could have 76 so I value bet. Then guy who DID NOT DO ANYTHING OUT OF LINE insta reraises me again. So question here is: Do this guy bluffs me? Would he ever bluff me this way? Why would he fold couple of times on J5J type of flops and then decide to check-minraise as a bluff on flop? And then to do same on turn? Way that hand played, and way he played I was 99% sure he is not bluffing there. Even more tricky or ultra aggressive opponents wouldn't take this line I believe. So, if it is not a bluff what I can beat? I can beat 78 (why would he min raise turn and shove all in ) I can beat str8 draw (why would he check turn instead of betting when he had initiative on flop?) and I can chop with 92, 95 or with same hand.Overpair obv doesn't make sense since he check on my limp (he didnt play that bad) All those holdings don't have logic. I lose from: 66, 77, 79,96, 810, 58, 93 any strong 9. All theese hands are very possible and in his range even 66 and 77 because its regular HU with slow structure and with blinds this low lot of players set-hunt here. Its not 3:1 on call. Bet was 675 and pot was 784. BUT I dont believe that I will win 1 in 3 times here. I just CANT BEAT ANYTHING EXCEPT BLUFF. Its obvious that he is not bluffing 30% of times here given the way hand played. And, Im player who will fold when I thing I have worse hand and Im risking half of my stack! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
acivoj pfc: folds [5c 9d] Uncalled bet (675) returned to HHCE HHCE collected 784 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 784 | Rake 0 Board [7d 9c 6s 9s 3c] Seat 1: acivoj pfc (button) (small blind) folded on the River Seat 2: HHCE (big blind) collected (784) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy call, and if he has you beat then just tell him bravo and move to the next HU
I mean you can't fold top set just because you have no kicker, this is online heads up.. Even live against a well respected tight player I would have a tough time laying that down... and probably wouldn't
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
As you said he is passive and re-raised you(reading with tyried eyes) and it is early in the game I think I would fold, and gather more info. Yes it could be a bluff, but could also quickly end your game. Set is a nice hand here, but lots do beat you, floating with any PP or the magic 8...though I dont have a problem with trying to x2 early or busting out. Folding would show good disaplin and you could lay a bluff on him.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by B1gfoot: , but could also quickly end your game.
no, he still had heaps behind. S**t fold - fold turn if you think you're beat.. What river are you hoping for when you call turn?
Turn is where it went wrong - either shove or fold. At the river, you're committed, never fold there, ever.
Maybe, but its only 136 to call for over 700 pot. I have some outs to improve (5, 8 and 9) and he is out of position so he can check again and alow me to check behind if I dont improve. I dont think Im committed here. pot is 800 (ish) and I have to call 700(ish). If that is committed then you can never fold river in any situation since bet on river is usually this size or in more cases even smaller. If you need to call 50$ raise on river in cash game and pot is 70$ you will always call that since you already called flop and turn?
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
Posted by jovicakralj: Opponent: limping almost every button, sometimes Cbet, rarely re raises, generally passive. Not doing anything strange but its still early stage of match.
PokerStars Hand #80249167732: Tournament #559015717, $14.29+$0.71 USD Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level II (15/30) - 2012/05/11 2:22:06 CET [2012/05/10 20:22:06 ET] Table '559015717 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: acivoj pfc (1933 in chips) Seat 2: HHCE (1067 in chips) acivoj pfc: posts small blind 15 HHCE: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to acivoj pfc [5c 9d] acivoj pfc: calls 15 HHCE: checks *** FLOP *** [7d 9c 6s] HHCE: checks acivoj pfc: bets 45 HHCE: raises 45 to 90 acivoj pfc: calls 45 *** TURN *** [7d 9c 6s] HHCE: checks acivoj pfc: bets 136 HHCE: raises 136 to 272 acivoj pfc: calls 136 *** RIVER *** [7d 9c 6s 9s] HHCE: bets 675 and is all-in
fold preflop.. this just put u in trouble as you see, especially with a limper who plays any 2. or fold at least on flop after his RR. (if u already say "he never RR".
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by B1gfoot: , but could also quickly end your game.
no, he still had heaps behind. S**t fold - fold turn if you think you're beat.. What river are you hoping for when you call turn?
Turn is where it went wrong - either shove or fold. At the river, you're committed, never fold there, ever.
Maybe, but its only 136 to call for over 700 pot. I have some outs to improve (5, 8 and 9) and he is out of position so he can check again and alow me to check behind if I dont improve. I dont think Im committed here. pot is 800 (ish) and I have to call 700(ish). If that is committed then you can never fold river in any situation since bet on river is usually this size or in more cases even smaller. If you need to call 50$ raise on river in cash game and pot is 70$ you will always call that since you already called flop and turn?
I think he mans check-fold, as said if you think you are beat, as you can only hope for a split on str8(unless he flops nuts) or 9 to beat his FH, I too don't think you are committed, but see the point. looking again at board, it is odd play, if he flops nuts why try push you off, better to let you hang yourself...there for would expect the bluff. I can see pros and cons to both calling and folding, but if playing the turn, then you must think you are ahead and the river means jack, so it should be AI or fold there, you gave him control.
Edit, am readin this all wrong I think, far doos I am tired, but T3ddyKGB makes the right point, I was thinking the guy was on button, not bb, steal or fold pre....I feel i'm going to change my mind again LOL...try sitting out!! thats what I should do in this thread...
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
I am sure before . Call you donk ? since I know you a winning player ? But you ask ...so I call you DONK ... ( I vote - fold, lol . easy to say hard to act at the table for me ). Congratz, nice winning after hard fold.
Jovi, did you think he might have a hand like 10-7? A gutshot + a pair basicly... Or a flush draw + a pair, wich would explain why he kept raising you and shoved the river.
But still there's a lot of hands that you can beat
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Posted by sadamman: Do we not know what he had then? Thats an anti-climax. He could have also had aa or kk.
Not anti climax Just to be never ending story, we have to finished it by ourselves sometimes I want post hand history like this, cause I fold and never know my decision is good or bad. Good sharing for me.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Your thought was correct jovi, i think you also did well there, although i told you to call in my first post. You say you didn’t believed he had overpair, but taking in consideration he was playing so “by the book”, although it was the beginning of the tourney, why would he just checked after the turn? Slowplay? It’s the only answer possible.
Posted by Fakiry: Your thought was correct jovi, i think you also did well there, although i told you to call in my first post. You say you didn�t believed he had overpair, but taking in consideration he was playing so �by the book�, although it was the beginning of the tourney, why would he just checked after the turn? Slowplay? It�s the only answer possible.
Definetly not... He could easily have a pair + a draw there. And He might've actually hit his flush on the river, wich might be the reason why he shoved. Anyways, we'll never know, but if it was a move it was a really good one. 85, 108, 66 and 77 or a 9 with a better kicker are the hands that beat you on the turn. On the river, you don't even beat the flush draw anymore, so maybe it was the right fold. But I agree with jess though, when you call the turn you can't really hope for a better river except if you improve your hand wich is unlikely. I would've probably raised on the turn.
I would call on the river anyways knowing most of my opponent's possible hands beat me, because you have good showdown value and 50% of a starting stack was already in the pot. Really you only beat a bluff here, but since he's tight he might be just relying on his image to bluff. This hand really shows why it's nice to have a good starting hand, you rarely get a easy decision with 95
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Posted by retribution: Easy call. Only 2 hands have you beat, 9 with an over, or 45. Even if they have an over, you're not far behind, and you still could catch the gutshot so you've got a tonne outs. Plus you're getting like 4-1 to call.
I'd snap call and just throw something if he showed up with something ridiculous like A9.
I bet anything HCE had an overpair and caught the river.
*Edit* Didn't realise this was HU. Snap-call all day long. Seems like you're pretty aggressive, raising 95o
What do you mean only two hands have you beat, lol. 9 with an over is 9 and any other card greater than 7 in this case, that's 6 hands right there, plus our full houses: 96, 97, 93, 77, 33, 66. And then the straights: 45, 85, 8T. That's 15 hands, not including suit variations. The 33 and 45 admittedly aren't as likely but I could see him wanting to try get a good payout from an OESD against an aggro player like Jovi.
Of course we can subtract a few over pairs that likely would've been played similarly that Jovi would've had beat. And I can't see a player like this (or how I imagine him given Jovi's description) min raising middle/low pair.
Not saying fold is the right move, but let's not down play the difficulty of the call, it's a tough choice.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Hey Jovi,
Did you ever end up revealing what it was that you did and the result of those actions? I know I'm curious to know if you laid it down or if you showed down, and if the latter what did the guy have? You're a good player so hopefully I'll learn something.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by Arithmajik: Hey Jovi,
Did you ever end up revealing what it was that you did and the result of those actions? I know I'm curious to know if you laid it down or if you showed down, and if the latter what did the guy have? You're a good player so hopefully I'll learn something.
looks like u missed this --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
acivoj pfc: folds [5c 9d] Uncalled bet (675) returned to HHCE HHCE collected 784 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 784 | Rake 0 Board [7d 9c 6s 9s 3c] Seat 1: acivoj pfc (button) (small blind) folded on the River Seat 2: HHCE (big blind) collected (784) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
) I can beat str8 draw (why would he check turn instead of 
