Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
First of all I just want to say I don't think any of you will think this was good. But I just want to show some of you how unbelievable trusting your gut can be. He got sadamized lol....
PokerStars Hand #84665969725: Tournament #599995919, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/08/13 15:44:26 WET [2012/08/13 10:44:26 ET] Table '599995919 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: MaRiG.14 (1530 in chips) Seat 2: nightrac3ra (1520 in chips) Seat 3: bratbratybra (1410 in chips) Seat 5: visiskas (1560 in chips) Seat 6: sadamman (2950 in chips) Seat 7: br0kerpoker (1480 in chips) Seat 8: 2gr82b4go10 (1500 in chips) Seat 9: Strello1983 (1550 in chips) br0kerpoker: posts small blind 10 2gr82b4go10: posts big blind 20 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to sadamman [8h 4h] Strello1983: folds MaRiG.14: folds nightrac3ra: folds bratbratybra: folds visiskas: raises 70 to 90 sadamman: calls 90 br0kerpoker: folds 2gr82b4go10: folds *** FLOP *** [8d 4c Ad] visiskas: bets 105 sadamman: raises 295 to 400 visiskas: calls 295 *** TURN *** [8d 4c Ad] visiskas: checks sadamman: bets 1080 visiskas: calls 1070 and is all-in Uncalled bet (10) returned to sadamman *** RIVER *** [8d 4c Ad 9s] *** SHOW DOWN *** visiskas: shows [Td 9d] (a pair of Nines) sadamman: shows [8h 4h] (two pair, Eights and Fours) sadamman collected 3150 from pot visiskas finished the tournament in 17th place *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 3150 | Rake 0 Board [8d 4c Ad 9s Qs] Seat 1: MaRiG.14 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: nightrac3ra folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: bratbratybra folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: visiskas showed [Td 9d] and lost with a pair of Nines Seat 6: sadamman (button) showed [8h 4h] and won (3150) with two pair, Eights and Fours Seat 7: br0kerpoker (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 8: 2gr82b4go10 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 9: Strello1983 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Well, I would say the pre flop call to a 4,5x BB raise is bad with 84h, but the rest is standard. You just told him the truth, and the guy was obviously retarded.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Yeah thats kinda my point macubas, you can use the negative percentage with hands to you advantage too if you're paying enough attention. Obviously I hadn't payed attention here, it was only the 3rd hand and I'd already had a double up.
There is more to come. In fact the hand before that where I got a double up was even worse lol.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I gotta say I can't even call with hands like this, but visiskas surely needed to learn a lesson after betting on chasing the flush. I mean you stayed with pure poop, but at least you hit on the flop.
Then as you state, the hand before that doubled you up was worse. Wow! I guess I need to start playing more of the hands I fold. There are times I wish I would have stayed, but I always tell myself I did the right thing to fold and wait for the better hands then, not hit poop. So it look's like you fare well with those hands.
Oh I didn't see the guy had a flush draw, my bad. He wasn't as retarded as I thought, but he was bad anyways Especially for calling the shove on the river.
Greenmohave --> Depends how deep you are. In my opinion, the deeper you are the more you can afford to see flops and play post flop hoping to hit the nuts and get paid. When I play cash games I usually try to have a loose image, raise a lot pre flop but I'm actually tight post flop. Knowing when to c-bet and when to not c-bet is very important though, cause when you're involved in a lot of pots some people will play back at you with very marginal hands, even when they hit nothing. I don't raise or limp hands like 84s though, 57s yeah but not 84. It's almost impossible to hit the nuts with a hand like 106s, and when you're deep stack (100 BB+), what you want is the nuts. And you can usually extract more value with straights, cause possible flushes scare people a lot.
Edited by TheMachineQC (14 August 2012 @ 00:58 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Ok, silly call in silly season, just to see the action being chipleader at the table. Nothing wrong with that. But the way you played you only won because your oponent was a big donk, who doesnt know the difference betwen na Ace and a deuce. He bets all in a flush draw after the turn! Crazy!!! But if it happens that he had Ax and got a 2nd pairo n that river, you would be showing that here because you knew everyone would ask “where the hell did you had your head when you played this way?”
Sorry but this just typifies the way online poker is going. Its now any two cards pre flop, hope to hit big.
You see it in every game, people calling with utter garbage irrespective of what the bet is, the players table image etc.. Its simply a case of "I must see the flop"
There is no reason whatosever to justify calling that pre flop raise with 84.
Yes you got lucky, but its not good play. In fact its horrific. Its not gut instinct. Its not using poker logic, its out and out gambling.
Online poker is a joke now. Full of idiots who can't lay down any two cards because they hit once or twice, get lucky and think they are semi pros..
The hand above is a typical example of how bad people play online. Two player too dumb to fold hands, and now even at higher stakes on PS, you see it all the time. Its utterly ridiculous, and its making online poker an absolute joke.
Its true what they say about Pokerstars.. The more stupid you are, the more they reward you....
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Posted by fcumred: Sorry but this just typifies the way online poker is going. Its now any two cards pre flop, hope to hit big.
You see it in every game, people calling with utter garbage irrespective of what the bet is, the players table image etc.. Its simply a case of "I must see the flop"
There is no reason whatosever to justify calling that pre flop raise with 84.
Yes you got lucky, but its not good play. In fact its horrific. Its not gut instinct. Its not using poker logic, its out and out gambling.
Online poker is a joke now. Full of idiots who can't lay down any two cards because they hit once or twice, get lucky and think they are semi pros..
The hand above is a typical example of how bad people play online. Two player too dumb to fold hands, and now even at higher stakes on PS, you see it all the time. Its utterly ridiculous, and its making online poker an absolute joke.
Its true what they say about Pokerstars.. The more stupid you are, the more they reward you....
Yes you're right I am absolutely retarded, and I play hands like 84 s everytime I get them. Or not, and you are the retard for NEVER playing those hands. They do win. This is proof. I actually had pretty decent odds. The blinds were small. I was big stack. In position. He was more of a donk than me. I was only ever seeing the flop until I hit so well. More reasons to call than fold.
------------ As for you saying online poker is a ridiculous disgrace. Maybe its just evolution. People always do seem to have a problem with evolution. Especially the 'more mature' folk.
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 2219
I think a fols is better in this case. You have enough time to wait for a better hand or situation. Why risking so much if you know you have the second best hand here
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by sadamman:
Posted by fcumred: There is no reason whatosever to justify calling that pre flop raise with 84.
Online poker is a joke now. Full of idiots who can't lay down any two cards because they hit once or twice, get lucky and think they are semi pros..
Yes you're right I am absolutely retarded, and I play hands like 84 s everytime I get them. Or not, and you are the retard for NEVER playing those hands. They do win. This is proof. I actually had pretty decent odds. The blinds were small. I was big stack. In position. He was more of a donk than me. I was only ever seeing the flop until I hit so well. More reasons to call than fold.
Whilst I do agree that calling with bad starting hands can work out if you are big stacked and in position, I do not agree with your 8 4 call for several reasons. Firstly, although suited the bonus of getting a flush is not so great. Should 3 hearts fall you may find yourself against a higher flush chaser, which isn't fantastic or a higher made flush, which would be awful and hard to fold without losing a lot of chips. Suited connectors are entirely different. Straights are more likely to bankrupt your opponent safely. 8 and 4 are too far apart to be worth calling and any 5 6 and 7 flop wouldn't get action. A gutshot straight draw is also a horrible flop that could bleed you of chips. Hitting a single pair would be no good so the only good hand for you is one like this and even then it's not unbreakable. Finally the raise preflop was a decent raise and if you continually called with these hands you would soon throw away your chip lead. every hand can win but you're incorrect about your odds.
I hope for your sake you were just flaming the previous poster for writing such a post.
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 232
Call with 84 is not good imo i wouldn't do it anyways. Betting with t9d in MP doesn't make that much sense aswell but ok. Dude was in a draw which was what he was hoping to i guess .. he did wrong in betting OOP .. i see lots of donks whenever an A comes.. they represent it like 80% of the time.. dunno why it doesn't payoff.
I mean he couldn't be doing that because of the draw.. if your on a draw you check-raise all in and pray or check-call , you can always check-min raise just to get a read on him tho. Never bet OOP lol.. you want to put as less chips in the pot as possible.. to make the turn cheap.. so you get good pot odds on calling and you can see the extra card cheap. That or shove and spin for it like isildur does baller style. 84 call that will lose you alot of money in the long run .. well played postflop.. standard.. very nice good luck that you were playing Sean Penn on "I AM SAM" retarded-like.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
I know this. But even 7 2 has its day. Thats what I'm saying. Not 'bla-bla-bla the better move was.... because 90% of the time bla-bla-bla.' Calling was obviously the better move I won didn't I.
Joined: Dec '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 707
this is just ridiculous play by a muppet who then trys to justify it by claiming he was big stack! also how did you know he didnt have 2 pair or trips??
people say but its ok my hand was strong only because it won...but if it lost you would have been shoutin all sorts.. imo its people like you who muck up online poker for people who actually want to play the game instead of gambling on any 2 cards..
think you should really download yourself a starting hands chart..might improve your game a bit!!
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by sadamman: But even 7 2 has its day.
Yes if you play any hand enough times it will win. But the wins will probably be small.
Statistically you will also get a lot of bad beats and cold hands with 7 2. It's very easily out-drawn.
Forget the maths if you like. Forget ev blah-blah. If you could count how many chips you've lost playing 6 2, 7 3, 8 4, 9 5, 7 2, 8 3 etc you'd see that this win barely makes a dent in the debt these hands owe you. If you didn't win with them occasionally you'd be in real trouble.
Especially for calling the shove on the river. 
