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A full house can never be the nuts
 

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haha. In most of the examples above AA is the nuts not Ax. AK is not the nuts on an AKK flop but it is the joint nuts on a flop AAK. This is the whole focus of the thread.

In any case retribution's question specifically said "absolute nuts on the flop" which in this context means it cannot be outdrawn even by <1%, all your examples can be beaten, some of them more easily than others.

@Jess - I agree. Only a straight flush where you have at least one card at the top end or a royal flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop.

     
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< 1% is real chance for BAD BEAT Big Smile

     
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Posted by Doarulle:
In conclusion: after i've tipe this madness i saw there's no full house nuts on the flop
Worship


You werent really clear about that sentence....no nuts full house possible on flop going by your examples?

Or no nuts full house possible on flop because any pair like JJ on turn and river can give your opponents quads that beat your boat? This you totally forgot in your madness Tongue

     
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Not even A Spade A Club with flop A Heart A Diamond K Spade is not nuts, there's a 0.10% chance to lose if turn is J Diamond Q Diamond and adversar have K Diamond and T Diamond i think i go to sleep, i'm boored and i don't know what i'm tipe here... hope you understand my madness

     
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New teaser: Can anyone figure out what the lowest nut hand you can have is?

I don't mean 'two pair' or 'trips' I mean an actual hand. Which five card hand (eg AAAJ2) is the lowest that can be the nuts.

     
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Posted by awood88:
New teaser: Can anyone figure out what the lowest nut hand you can have is?

I don't mean 'two pair' or 'trips' I mean an actual hand. Which five card hand (eg AAAJ2) is the lowest that can be the nuts.

Okay, I'll do a quick guess, and we can work from there:

On a 2378Q board having pocket QQ is the lowest nuts I can think of right now, with 1 minute of thinking about it (no flush draws of course)...

Who can do one better?

     
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Posted by awood88:
New teaser: Can anyone figure out what the lowest nut hand you can have is?

I don't mean 'two pair' or 'trips' I mean an actual hand. Which five card hand (eg AAAJ2) is the lowest that can be the nuts.



Dunno if my thoughts are right, but what about

62 vs. 52 on a 98743 board?


Oops NUTS HANDS...ummm I thought about the lowest possible winning hand ^^ Damn that could have been the next question Sad

------------
Posted by marqis:
Posted by awood88:
New teaser: Can anyone figure out what the lowest nut hand you can have is?

I don't mean 'two pair' or 'trips' I mean an actual hand. Which five card hand (eg AAAJ2) is the lowest that can be the nuts.

Okay, I'll do a quick guess, and we can work from there:

On a 2378Q board having pocket QQ is the lowest nuts I can think of right now, with 1 minute of thinking about it (no flush draws of course)...

Who can do one better?


Yep i think ur right, came to the same board and logical QQ nuts

Edited by EnyaMaus (17 September 2012 @ 11:18 GMT)


     
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Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by retribution:
A little late to answer the question, although I knew the answer anyways.

A new brain buster, is it ever possible to have the absolute nuts on the flop?

Of course you can have a nuts on the flop : you need a royal flush or a straight flush or quads, even full house can be nuts: in this case full house must be something like : AK and flop AAK Blink


100% for sure you CANNOT flop the absolute nuts with only a full-house. And as I wrote above, now that I think about it I am fairly certain you can't flop the absolute nuts with quads, can you please provide an example of how you can? Thanks !


...
eg non-nut hands
...

Waiting for replies Worship


So you agree, only a straight flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop? We're not talking about "nearly" only absolute.

     
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I've red all posts and found them very interesting and useful ..... Big Smile Big Smile
I would ever have full house after river Blink

     
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Posted by marqis:
Posted by awood88:
New teaser: Can anyone figure out what the lowest nut hand you can have is?


On a 2378Q board having pocket QQ is the lowest nuts I can think of right now, with 1 minute of thinking about it (no flush draws of course)...

Who can do one better?


I'm pretty sure that is it.. I did same as you, built up the lowest board with no straights and I get it to Q as well.. And lowest nut hand you can have is definitely top-set

     
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Ofcourse full house can be the nuts. Since nuts stands for "the best possible hand at the time"
So the statement is false

     
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by retribution:
A little late to answer the question, although I knew the answer anyways.

A new brain buster, is it ever possible to have the absolute nuts on the flop?

Of course you can have a nuts on the flop : you need a royal flush or a straight flush or quads, even full house can be nuts: in this case full house must be something like : AK and flop AAK Blink


100% for sure you CANNOT flop the absolute nuts with only a full-house. And as I wrote above, now that I think about it I am fairly certain you can't flop the absolute nuts with quads, can you please provide an example of how you can? Thanks !


...
eg non-nut hands
...

Waiting for replies Worship


So you agree, only a straight flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop? We're not talking about "nearly" only absolute.


Thats not true..

Suppose you have KK and the flop is KK2 then you cannot be beaten so you have hte stone cold nuts.

Now if you can be beaten after the river is a different matter, but the nuts is the hand that cannot be beaten with the cards showing.

No where does it mention whether the nuts on the flop remains the absolute nuts after the river.

The absolute nuts on teh flop is a completely different thing to the nuts on the river, as many who play Omaha will testify.

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Posted by Bassets:
Ofcourse full house can be the nuts. Since nuts stands for "the best possible hand at the time"
So the statement is false


Wrong... your opponent can have quads.

The nuts is the BEST possible hand with the cards available.

Its NOT the hand that will win the hand.

Therefore if you flop a full house you dont have the absolute nuts with the cards available because you can be beaten by quads..

The fact you can hit higher quads doesn't alter the fact you are drawing to the nuts and don't actually have it yet.

Edited by fcumred (18 September 2012 @ 16:59 GMT)


     
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Posted by fcumred:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by retribution:
A little late to answer the question, although I knew the answer anyways.

A new brain buster, is it ever possible to have the absolute nuts on the flop?

Of course you can have a nuts on the flop : you need a royal flush or a straight flush or quads, even full house can be nuts: in this case full house must be something like : AK and flop AAK Blink


100% for sure you CANNOT flop the absolute nuts with only a full-house. And as I wrote above, now that I think about it I am fairly certain you can't flop the absolute nuts with quads, can you please provide an example of how you can? Thanks !


...
eg non-nut hands
...

Waiting for replies Worship


So you agree, only a straight flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop? We're not talking about "nearly" only absolute.


Thats not true..

Suppose you have KK and the flop is KK2 then you cannot be beaten so you have hte stone cold nuts.

Now if you can be beaten after the river is a different matter, but the nuts is the hand that cannot be beaten with the cards showing.

No where does it mention whether the nuts on the flop remains the absolute nuts after the river.

The absolute nuts on teh flop is a completely different thing to the nuts on the river, as many who play Omaha will testify.


I think we're arguing semantics here, my understanding of the phrase 'stone cold nuts' or 'absolute nuts' means it CANNOT be out-drawn, hence being absolute. It's not absolute if there's further possibilities (that basically contradicts the definition of the word 'absolute').

So of course KK on a KK2 board CAN be out-drawn - to a straight flush - either K high or A high.

     
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Posted by fcumred:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by daorulle:
Posted by retribution:
A little late to answer the question, although I knew the answer anyways.

A new brain buster, is it ever possible to have the absolute nuts on the flop?

Of course you can have a nuts on the flop : you need a royal flush or a straight flush or quads, even full house can be nuts: in this case full house must be something like : AK and flop AAK Blink

So you agree, only a straight flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop? We're not talking about "nearly" only absolute.


Thats not true..

Suppose you have KK and the flop is KK2 then you cannot be beaten so you have hte stone cold nuts.

No where does it mention whether the nuts on the flop remains the absolute nuts after the river.


It was kinda implied by retribution's question. He wasn't asking 'is it possible to have (the best possible hand on the flop) on the flop' was he? Absolute nuts here does mean a hand that will still be the nuts on the river.

My original question in this thread was entirely different, I asked can a full house be the nuts at any time. The answer has been confirmed as yes but only where more than one person can have the nuts.

Posted by fcumred:
Therefore if you flop a full house you dont have the absolute nuts with the cards available because you can be beaten by quads..

The fact you can hit higher quads doesn't alter the fact you are drawing to the nuts and don't actually have it yet.


I think we need to define absolute nuts again. I said earlier in the thread that wikipedia defines absolute nuts as the best possible hand on the flop without considering hole cards. When we consider hole cards we have to look at the effective nuts, which isn't always the same as the absolute nuts since our cards rule out certain hands. I don't particularly agree that absolute nuts means best possible hand from an onlookers perspective whereas people can only see their hand as the first or second nuts etc.

Edited by awood88 (18 September 2012 @ 23:41 GMT)


     
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by fcumred:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Doarulle:
Posted by retribution:
A little late to answer the question, although I knew the answer anyways.

A new brain buster, is it ever possible to have the absolute nuts on the flop?

Of course you can have a nuts on the flop : you need a royal flush or a straight flush or quads, even full house can be nuts: in this case full house must be something like : AK and flop AAK Blink


100% for sure you CANNOT flop the absolute nuts with only a full-house. And as I wrote above, now that I think about it I am fairly certain you can't flop the absolute nuts with quads, can you please provide an example of how you can? Thanks !


...
eg non-nut hands
...

Waiting for replies Worship


So you agree, only a straight flush can be the absolute nuts on the flop? We're not talking about "nearly" only absolute.


Thats not true..

Suppose you have KK and the flop is KK2 then you cannot be beaten so you have hte stone cold nuts.

Now if you can be beaten after the river is a different matter, but the nuts is the hand that cannot be beaten with the cards showing.

No where does it mention whether the nuts on the flop remains the absolute nuts after the river.

The absolute nuts on teh flop is a completely different thing to the nuts on the river, as many who play Omaha will testify.


I think we're arguing semantics here, my understanding of the phrase 'stone cold nuts' or 'absolute nuts' means it CANNOT be out-drawn, hence being absolute. It's not absolute if there's further possibilities (that basically contradicts the definition of the word 'absolute').

So of course KK on a KK2 board CAN be out-drawn - to a straight flush - either K high or A high.


Or somebody could have aces and runner runner quads. Plus kk on a kk2 board isn't even a full house its quads. This question is about full house.

     
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Top set can be the nuts, but a full house can't. What makes a full house nice though is that straights and flushes can't outdraw you, so you really only have to worry (or not) about the absolute nuts... Makes the hand very easy to play, unless you're against a nit that never bluffs and he suddently shoves Big Smile

Play PLO high and you'll see how important it is to have a hand that can improve on the turn & river, even if it's the nuts on the flop...

     
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False!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phfH6akwRsA&feature=plcp

     
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