Joined: May '12
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So, this is the hand. Granted, one was all-in pre-flop, but I'm still wondering, how would that affect your game. If all were the same stack, if one was all in preflop like here, what would you do? On the all in, I'd check it to the river, otherwise I would've shoved on the flop, given that none shoved before me.
PokerStars Hand #90269815810: Tournament #653399813, $0.09+$0.01 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/12/04 23:21:35 CET [2012/12/04 17:21:35 ET] Table '653399813 6' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: zz_3a9c (1465 in chips) Seat 2: Zagan's (1255 in chips) Seat 3: T.K.Lacor (3235 in chips) Seat 4: cristian_c7 (1470 in chips) Seat 5: Leo_DaVin388 (1640 in chips) Seat 6: Mesquita007 (1425 in chips) Seat 7: YHNUJMIKLO67 (1500 in chips) Seat 8: lorenaoru (70 in chips) Seat 9: Shoosh275 (1400 in chips) Leo_DaVin388: posts small blind 15 Mesquita007: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Shoosh275 [8c 9h] YHNUJMIKLO67: folds lorenaoru: raises 40 to 70 and is all-in Shoosh275: calls 70 zz_3a9c: folds Zagan's: folds T.K.Lacor: calls 70 cristian_c7: folds Leo_DaVin388: folds Mesquita007: calls 40 *** FLOP *** [Qs Qd Qh] Mesquita007: checks Shoosh275: checks T.K.Lacor: bets 115 Mesquita007: folds Shoosh275: folds Uncalled bet (115) returned to T.K.Lacor *** TURN *** [Qs Qd Qh] *** RIVER *** [Qs Qd Qh 3d] *** SHOW DOWN *** lorenaoru: shows [Qc Jc] (four of a kind, Queens) T.K.Lacor: shows [Kc As] (three of a kind, Queens) lorenaoru collected 295 from pot Shoosh275 said, "what a flop lol" *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 295 | Rake 0 Board [Qs Qd Qh 3d Tc] Seat 1: zz_3a9c folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Zagan's folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: T.K.Lacor showed [Kc As] and lost with three of a kind, Queens Seat 4: cristian_c7 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Leo_DaVin388 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: Mesquita007 (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 7: YHNUJMIKLO67 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: lorenaoru showed [Qc Jc] and won (295) with four of a kind, Queens Seat 9: Shoosh275 folded on the Flop
Joined: Feb '08
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Firstly I wouldn't recommend calling preflop unless you know how to play these middle hands. Sometimes suited connectors are potential big winners when you and others are deep-stack but you're in middle position against an all-in. Without a few more callers it's definitely not +ev and obviously someone being all-in preflop slows down the action post flop, which reduces the benefit of playing these hands.
Once you do call, there's little point betting out on that flop. You can only get called by a hand that beats you and the all-in hand is very likely to be ahead. Even if there was no all-in, the pot is only 295. It's not exactly worth stealing and the risk of being knocked out does not justify this pot. And AK is very likely to call is this type of tournament ie practically a freeroll.
Joined: Mar '11
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I'm never calling any amount in any position With 89os so early in a tourney. Sorry bud. I would maybe put a raise in with it in very rare circumstances but I would never call with it. That's me tho, everyone plays differently.
Joined: Jan '10
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Posted by bullettooth1: I'm never calling any amount in any position With 89os so early in a tourney. Sorry bud. I would maybe put a raise in with it in very rare circumstances but I would never call with it. That's me tho, everyone plays differently.
Yeah, and all iner is smallest stack. what for play with 98os ? maybe hit on flop but manytimes loose with it. Shove on flop ? that's bad move ! everyone know do you will shove if you had Q ? would you just call pre flop if you had big pair ?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
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Call pre, shutdown on the flop. I know it sounds wierd, but I find when 1 player goes all in for such a small amount relative to the pot, it seems to invite more limpers than raisers. It's wierd, but you're more likely to see 4 people limp behind a small shove like this, instead of seeing big raises to isolate like you SHOULD be seeing. Bigger pot = better odds to call = 89 is a good hand to call with.
Post flop, shut down immediately to any bet as you're likely drawing VERY close to dead.
Joined: May '08
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Fold preflop. There are tons of people acting after you, and if one of them is raising it up, like the guy with AK should have done, you are forced to fold, or play a big pot with 98o out of position.
Joined: Jun '10
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Indead best action here was folding preflop.
I am just thinking why your opponent TK lacor (with AK) does not 3-bet preflop.
postflop there s only one thing to do with your cards that s folding. If you play cards like 89o and you miss the flop you can only fold.
But at level II better fold these kind of hands, I would only play them (further in the torney when there are ante's ) in late position with no action in front of me. Then I would think of a 3 or 4 BB raise, hoping the rest would fold. But stealing blinds in level II is not worht it
Joined: Apr '09
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The guys who’s all-in pre-flop doesn’t have nothing to do with this hand, one don’t even need to worry about him, come on, he only had 70 chips, what difference does that makes? It looks to me that you and Mesquita007 were only thinking about eliminating one of the competitors, while T.K.Lacor was thinking about trying to win a pot. The decision would be between the three of you, not minding about that first pot. He had high cards and, in the moment he bet, both fold. He didn’t won more chips because you were afraid of running against him and he happened to lose the first pot to the all-in poor guy that made four of kind and continued in the game with the help of the poker gods. You can think you three should have played checking till the end so that one of you could have better hand than the all-in guy, which is called collusion if you wrote about doing that on the chat. I guess there’s nothing more to say about it. Without the all-in guy, facing QQQ is a good motive to fold if you don’t have a Q or if you don’t have a pocket pair. So, in your case, easy fold.
Joined: Aug '10
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The best way was to fold it in this situation. This is the second level and a lot of players limp to see a flop. And the best can be broken when to much players are involved in the hand. You can wait for better situations.
Posted by retribution: Call pre, shutdown on the flop. I know it sounds wierd, but I find when 1 player goes all in for such a small amount relative to the pot, it seems to invite more limpers than raisers. It's wierd, but you're more likely to see 4 people limp behind a small shove like this, instead of seeing big raises to isolate like you SHOULD be seeing. Bigger pot = better odds to call = 89 is a good hand to call with.
Post flop, shut down immediately to any bet as you're likely drawing VERY close to dead.
He is early in tournament and this is drawing type of hand. Considering his position and possibility someone reraises it's terrible call. On flop he can hope for a draw at best and lose a lot of chips with it.
Smooth calling knowing that BB is atleast gonna call gives the table a good chance to eliminate that very short stack. Keep in mind that his shove is only 10 more than a double up raise, so even if you call there and BB re-raises to lets say 8-12 BBs, then you just fold and that's it.
Pre flop standard play is to fold of course. But if more people call behind you and you hit something strong, then you can build a big pot from there. It's a bad play to call but it's not terrible either, it's not like you're risking your tournament life. The guy who had AK there didn't reraise pre flop. If flop comes 89K, 88A or something like that he's in trouble...
Edited by TheMachineQC (04 January 2013 @ 17:55 GMT)
Joined: Mar '11
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Posted by xdomagojx:
Posted by retribution: Call pre, shutdown on the flop. I know it sounds wierd, but I find when 1 player goes all in for such a small amount relative to the pot, it seems to invite more limpers than raisers. It's wierd, but you're more likely to see 4 people limp behind a small shove like this, instead of seeing big raises to isolate like you SHOULD be seeing. Bigger pot = better odds to call = 89 is a good hand to call with.
Post flop, shut down immediately to any bet as you're likely drawing VERY close to dead.
He is early in tournament and this is drawing type of hand. Considering his position and possibility someone reraises it's terrible call. On flop he can hope for a draw at best and lose a lot of chips with it.
Your advices are crap seriously.
LOL. Okay, let's see some of your gems of wisdom. Sure he's OP, sure he's got a draw type hand, but he's in what will likely be in a multi-way pot for cheap. Being the blinds are already 45, PLUS the shover adds another 70, the pots at 115 and he's only investing 70. Sure he folds some of the time if someone behind re-pops, but if more people just limp (Like I said happens quite often when someone shoves like this), he's getting even better odds. Also add to the fact that in these kind of spots, idiots LOVE to try and limp in with monsters, hoping to "trap" the other limpers. If you hit, you can milk them because you KNOW they won't be folding their AA/KK.
It's not just seeing your cards man, it's about anticipating how you think the rest of the table will act. Connected/suited cards are good in multi-way pots, because better pot odds + better implied odds = more worth playing draw type hands for the odd time they DO hit vs the times you have to fold.
I will agree on one thing, him limping in such early position MAY be a tad bit more marginal, but if he was LP/CO/BTN, extra limpers or not, I'd snap call that just because you're basically 2:1. If the rest of the players to act just fold and you end up HU.
Also, in this spot, we can assume at least 1 of the blinds are going to limp in any decent hand, fold their bottom end, and raise very little of their top end.
This, my friend, is being able to see past your own cards. That's what seperates the good players (me) from the bad players (you) who insult people who's advice they don't understand.
Edited by retribution (05 January 2013 @ 08:25 GMT)
