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PART 1 : Identifying fish
A fish can have a VPIP/PFR from 36/2 to 85/52 but in general you can put the fish in 2 categories. The A-fish (Aggressive) and the P-fish (Passive).
The A-fish is a more aggressive player who has a smaller gap between his VPIP/PFR. He will be 3betting more and raising his hands postflop a lot more.
The P-fish (Passive) is the opposite and has a wider gap between VPIP/PFR and will be openlimping, coldcalling openraises & coldcalling 3 & 4 bets and other fancy stuff.
There are certainly fish in the middle but most of them are either A-fish or P-fish The main thing about fish is that they make bad decisions and making bad decisions means losing money and so they should be an important factor in our winrate
Finding Fish : it’s hard to have a good sample size on fish because they disappear fast. Why is that, well they gamble, they loose and they are gone. So this makes it sometimes hard to identify a fish. We usually don’t have big samples on fish but we still need to recognize them quickly because they make a large chunk of our winrate. A great way to identify fish quickly is the VPIP/PFR differential (the gap). The wider the gap the more passive a player tends to be, the closer the gap the more aggressive a player tends to be. Often times aggression factors carry over from preflop to postflop.
A good player tends to have a small gap so when you have a sample of 20 hands and a player is running 40/10 that’s a fish because the chance that a good player has those stats is very small. It could be that he had some spots for setmining but in general you should be very sure it’s a fish. Good players have discipline and will have tight stats.Fish don’t have the discipline so loose numbers are usually fish.
Another way to find fish is the chatbox : fish love to chat. Sometimes you can identify them by their name, for instance SuperpokefA or FoldIllRaiseU If you have found a fish try to visualize the player quickly. Most poker sites have color codes to do this. So next time you are on the same table you can see the fish instantly. It’s also helpful for a better table/seat selection.
Learn to beat fish, build your bankroll and move up. Even at a higher level there will be fish, only the regs shall be better.
Before i publish Part 2 i would like to read your comments
------------ I forgot to mention that these conclusions are rather for FULL RING Games. The game at six max/zoom is quit different
Edited by SuperpokefA (04 September 2013 @ 13:08 GMT)
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Posted by SuperpokefA:
Another way to find fish is the chatbox : fish love to chat. Sometimes you can identify them by their name, for instance SuperpokefA or FoldIllRaiseU
so as a conclusion that makes u a fish ,beside u re nickname is SuperpokefA , so now am asking why i read tips from how to defeat a fish from .....a Is like i would tell u how to defeat me , irelevant .I m more opportunistik ,i like to & not telling me how to do it
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Posted by TigerAxL:
Posted by SuperpokefA:
Another way to find fish is the chatbox : fish love to chat. Sometimes you can identify them by their name, for instance SuperpokefA or FoldIllRaiseU
so as a conclusion that makes u a fish ,beside u re nickname is SuperpokefA , so now am asking why i read tips from how to defeat a fish from .....a Is like i would tell u how to defeat me , irelevant .I m more opportunistik ,i like to & not telling me how to do it
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"..A fish can have a VPIP/PFR from 36/2 to 85/52.." Man i really must be a fish coz i have no idea what that means mate. Like i'm looking at this through an aquarium glass but on my side there's also water I'll take as some statistic values probably used in some hud or something... i don't use any kind of software to keep track of my tables so that's already my disadvantage trying to figure what those values are all about..
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It's a pretty good selection about what most people define a fish player.
I'm sure that those which use poker hud software they know what those stats are. Thats a pretty good way to take a general image of the players you are up against.
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So you have AA and you raise 4 bet UTG and the bb with 99 pushs all in you insta cal! flop comes 9 and bliong bling your fucked! you end being the fish!!
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Posted by kinogomes: So you have AA and you raise 4 bet UTG and the bb with 99 pushs all in you insta cal! flop comes 9 and bliong bling your fucked! you end being the fish!!
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I really like how you included the stats to specifically describe and characterize fish. Adds to the credibility. I gotta start using a tracking software I guess, probably missing out on opportunities.
Just wanted to point out that while your definition works most of the tine, there are situations where it doesn't apply.
For example, In the early stages of tournaments, many players don't respect raises and one common strategy for dealing with that is to try to see flops cheaply and then betting the hands that hit while folding the hands that miss.
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Posted by Zen1004: Just wanted to point out that while your definition works most of the tine, there are situations where it doesn't apply.
For example, In the early stages of tournaments, many players don't respect raises and one common strategy for dealing with that is to try to see flops cheaply and then betting the hands that hit while folding the hands that miss.
You are right those definitions are more applicable for cash games than for tournaments. Another thing in forgot to mention During a tournament stacks sizes become more important than the cards in your hand. A big stack will put you under pressure and will play more hands and have a higher VPIP and PFR
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Posted by SuperpokefA:
Posted by Zen1004: Just wanted to point out that while your definition works most of the tine, there are situations where it doesn't apply.
For example, In the early stages of tournaments, many players don't respect raises and one common strategy for dealing with that is to try to see flops cheaply and then betting the hands that hit while folding the hands that miss.
You are right those definitions are more applicable for cash games than for tournaments. Another thing in forgot to mention During a tournament stacks sizes become more important than the cards in your hand. A big stack will put you under pressure and will play more hands and have a higher VPIP and PFR
Indead there s a big difference between cash games , SNG and tournaments ....
and for freerolls that s defenitely another game ....
But making notes or using stats is defenetely an important part of the game.
Even when your playing fast poker like Zoom/rush it can be very usefull as most players are regulars there and a fish is a fish... the more you see them the more you can get to his money.
It just takes a while till you got some info but it pays off on the long term
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Posted by lukasb: "..A fish can have a VPIP/PFR from 36/2 to 85/52.." Man i really must be a fish coz i have no idea what that means mate. Like i'm looking at this through an aquarium glass but on my side there's also water I'll take as some statistic values probably used in some hud or something... i don't use any kind of software to keep track of my tables so that's already my disadvantage trying to figure what those values are all about..
VPIP stands for Voluntarily Put $ In the Pot. This stat shows the percentage of time you make calls or raises before the flop. It shows how many hands you like to play. The more hands you play with, the higher your VPIP will be.
So for example, if a player's VPIP is 1%, they're probably only going to be playing (calling or raising) with Aces or Kings. Alternatively, if their VPIP is 100%, they're playing with every single hand they're dealt.
PFR stands for Pre Flop Raise. This stat shows the percentage of the time a player raises before the flop.
Every time you make a preflop raise, it counts toward your PFR. This can be a simple raise to 4big blinds, or it could be a 3bet or 4bet. Basically, any time you enter the pot preflop with a raise, you're contributing to your PFR stat.
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Posted by vsemoje: I find regs multitabling and fishes mostly play one table And yeah i cant imagine playing without HUD.
Damn you cheat just to dont be the fish, huds shouldnt be allowed in the game!! Huds are the cheat accepted by pokersites just to increase the rake! If your good at something you dont need to cheat"!
And yeah i cant imagine playing without HUD.
