Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
Anyone else hate these two draws when you have trips or two pair? The amount of times lately that I hit big on the flop and bet big but the flish(or maybe sharks) always call and it gives them the card needed 9/10 times. Its like they know they are going to hit and I always predict its going to happen before it does. What makes it more annoying is when you try yourself to hit it when the roles are reversed and it never does.
Discuss.
(Ps - obviously I love flush draws when I have one but I see to many straights being complete then it should do with odds)
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
Well,...you say 'Draw'....and a draw isn't a hand,...but they can SURE get your hopes up if you're holding something good...!
I had one in a BankrollMob/Full Tilt tourney earlier today... Was heads up with some Polock to my right. So I just min raised on the flop and turn,...buddy calls both times.... River comes,...I didn't connect and decided to try for the bluff...so I bet 3 or 4 times the blind...
The guy calls with his pair of 3s against a possible A high flush or straight.... or top pairs.... WHAT an idiot......
I lost the hand and a TON of chips....
Why would somebody call against ALL those possibilities on the board with only lowly THREES...????? i was very carefull to make it look like I was value-betting!!!
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Well, like everybody I hate when my winning hand gets outdrawn. My solution is to calmly make a note of that player as they can't calculate pot odds and they'll pay me more often then they win.
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
Posted by Arithmajik: Well, like everybody I hate when my winning hand gets outdrawn. My solution is to calmly make a note of that player as they can't calculate pot odds and they'll pay me more often then they win.
Posted by Phisix: Anyone else hate these two draws when you have trips or two pair? The amount of times lately that I hit big on the flop and bet big but the flish(or maybe sharks) always call and it gives them the card needed 9/10 times. Its like they know they are going to hit and I always predict its going to happen before it does. What makes it more annoying is when you try yourself to hit it when the roles are reversed and it never does.
Discuss.
(Ps - obviously I love flush draws when I have one but I see to many straights being complete then it should do with odds)
I reserve my hatred for the donks that push their 3 card flushes or 3 card double inside straight cards and hit. That and the bingo queens that are "all in" every hand and hit their rags every single time.
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
Posted by Arithmajik: Well, like everybody I hate when my winning hand gets outdrawn. My solution is to calmly make a note of that player as they can't calculate pot odds and they'll pay me more often then they win.
100% this. Its when you have them beat but you start worrying about the next card because you know its coming on the next street or after. Funny thing is I never hit them apart from flopping them, then again I probably fold more than I should in those situations if the call is slim enough.
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 178
Posted by Arithmajik: Well, like everybody I hate when my winning hand gets outdrawn. My solution is to calmly make a note of that player as they can't calculate pot odds and they'll pay me more often then they win.
If you had the chance to make a note on them and mark him/her as a straight or flush chaser you should make bigger bets. A pot bet or an overbet if you now that they will not fold. The pot odds will be against them and you will make some more money when they didn't hit their flush or street.
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
Yeah mathematically speaking a pot sized bets, make there play a negative one in the long run. Thats just maths.
Dont give them odds to draw out on you and if they continue and hit their flush be sure to fold, if your read is good. Dont make the mistake of potting the pot to give them bad odds and when they hit to continue.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Its gonna happen no matter what, players calling, to chase a hand. And that percentage some times varies with the chips they have committed so far in the pot. Personally dont chase too much of them cause most of the times i dont get the card i need.
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
Same for me. I only call once or twice if I have odds of hitting something with flush draws but I never seem to hit them, which is why I rarely do it anymore.
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 178
Posted by Macubaas: It's all math, calculate your odds and you won't lose too much money on long term.
On the other hand you have people that see every situation like this a chance and call up to the last hand, and then you start losing
Must agree with Macubaas, it's all about calculating the odds (implied odds). If they make a big continuation bet and i don't have enough implied odds i will fold my flush/straight draw UNLESS i know he will fold against a raise a big %.
If I play against a straight/flush chaser i raise big enough to give him bad pot odds. If he doesn't fold his hand and does not hit his hand i will win a bigger amount
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
I just had great odds with a open ended straight draw and a flush draw but as usual nothing would hit. Thats why I never chase. Did not cost me much money though so it was worth it I guess.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Yeh I agree to an extent, hate these drawing hands against me.
I got bumped out of a tournmanet not far off the money with a solid stack, raised ak, king hit the flop along with a 7 and a 9. Safe. I raised 3x, get called. Turn brings a 10. They shove on me.
They'd been very aggressive and I wasn't buying it, I was right. They flip over J8 for an OESD and bam 8 rolls out on the river. Then he had the nerve to mouth me saying I was a donk. Infuriating. And he was only getting something like 3:1 on an 8 outter.
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
The miracle gut shot card. Hate when that happens because the odds of that one card coming down is low, but it always happens.
------------ Getting pissed off with these draws now. They check, I raise big and they always call and a flush hits for them next turn. Just had a fish with 48s call my big raise trying to protect my AQ with Q on the board and of course he hits his magical flush card.
You can variance will come into effect soon but it never does as they constantly hit flushes.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Just have to be patient and make the right raises etc. Against calling stations there's never much point making large bets, they'll still call but over time you should be able to manoeuvre them.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
It's a pain indeed and it also happens to me all the time to the point that if i'm in a pot with 2+ callers and there's suited cards on the board my alarm bells start to go off lol. I don't know the right strategy on how to deal with this situation. lately i've been trying a new approach, instead of trying to get them off the pot i slow play them even more making believe that I have a bigger flush. usually just takes a chunky bet on the river ( still less what i would pay trying to protect my top pairs till then) and if i get reraised i know they got it and still i saved myself some money It's still a work in progress lol
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Always because there's always the donk 1 out 3 that's chasing to hit the straight or flush. It's just difficult to beat all the odds in electronic poker especially low stakes.
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
I think its because its less money lost for a call in the bottom of micro stakes compared to higher. When I was playing in the 0.25/0.50NL tables there was less calling stations and draw chasers. Even then variance should come into play for these guys at some point but the moves and calls they pull off and win with super bad odds just astounds me.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
It happens less often since the blinds are higher and the players are different. If you tag players though, you will see that most of them use the exact same style even at the 0.50 tables. It helps playing in the right table with the right players some times.
