Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Well I thought I'd mention about grinding and cash games.
My initial experience in the last 6 months was in playing 02/04c cash games, simply because that's all my bankroll allowed for. My skill on four tables wasn't really paying off. I was able to lose a BS of $5 without caring greatly, in that it didn't mean enough so my play got sloppier. That said I was playing solid poker, but at these stakes in over two months I barely got into +$5 profit. Really terrible for the time and effort.
Over Christmas I thought, screw this, my good plays aren't getting rewarded at lower levels and there are plenty more fish at higher limits. I wasn't wrong. I've played up to 25/50c before and been a winning player so I looked at my $55 bank roll and thought I'm going to have a pop at the 8/16c cash games. Nearly doubled my roll so far. I'm not saying I've suddenly got amazing skills, but the good plays I make and my experience pays me more at these stakes than any micro-micro can.
I risk a good chunk of my roll each time I sit down but I'm only opening two windows max to concentrate more.
Anyway, moral of the story, for me, moving up = $ If you are stuck at 1/2 - 2/4 and struggling to make much per hour AND have the experience don't be afraid to try the jump - it really isn't that much of a leap, if at all.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
Well you might be right about that idea. I know that playing hour after hour at the 0.01/0.02 NL tables can be a very long and frustrating process. I know that you can lose many hours work of perfect grinding with just one moron getting a miracle river suckout. It is just so frustrating without a doubt. Best of luck to you. be cool
Posted by noonlion: I risk a good chunk of my roll each time I sit down but I'm only opening two windows max to concentrate more.
Anyway, moral of the story, for me, moving up = $ If you are stuck at 1/2 - 2/4 and struggling to make much per hour AND have the experience don't be afraid to try the jump - it really isn't that much of a leap, if at all.
I'm not sure I understand the moral of your story. I'm happy for you, that you are succeeding while moving to higher stakes. However, it seems that you are justifying bad bankroll management, with good results.
This will on average have the opposite effect, on most players, losing their bankroll entirely...
If you are advocating playing less tables, in order to concentrate more on the game, than that would make sense. Evaluating your hourly win rate, as a function of the amount of tables, and stakes, is the smart thing to do. It might be that you optimal win rate is at a higher stake, with less tables, but proper bankroll management should still be applied, I feel (and you need a good sample size to be confident it's correct).
That being said, I'm kind of the opposite, always playing well below my bankroll, until I'm sure moving up won't lose me money (I play mainly NL2 and NL5 at about 9 bb/100, but could easily play NL50 with my bankroll, but I believe I'd lose it all quickly).
I hope I don't sound too negative, but I believe that taking stabs outside your bankroll, will often impact your bottom line negatively. Then again, being overly careful, like me, will never win you much either...
Posted by noonlion: I risk a good chunk of my roll each time I sit down but I'm only opening two windows max to concentrate more.
Anyway, moral of the story, for me, moving up = $ If you are stuck at 1/2 - 2/4 and struggling to make much per hour AND have the experience don't be afraid to try the jump - it really isn't that much of a leap, if at all.
I'm not sure I understand the moral of your story. I'm happy for you, that you are succeeding while moving to higher stakes. However, it seems that you are justifying bad bankroll management, with good results.
I would say the same thing here but indeed a little bit more briefly, I think that he us just gambling here and that even if you have the most amazing skills you will get hurt by the inevitable variance and indeed go broke because he's risking a big percentage of his bankroll.
Sometimes players need to hit rock bottom to realize they not cut out for that specific type of game. I've always favoured mtt more than cash games, altough I've got the same amount of modest success in both. But i noticed they got the same amount of clowns in micro/small stakes also, so from a standpoint of brmanagement yeah, its not the right move for him, to move up before he earned/learned enough, from the standpoint of "do not feel hes wasting time and effort" its a defendable step.
Variance will play a role in that hes got to go back to smaller stakes, or he could step further along.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
have to say that marqis summed it up beautifully but since mobpoints don't grow on trees i have to add something to the story as well- the smaller your bankroll= the bigger your problems (generally same rule applies to salami), you are taking bigger risks, and while it may pay off- it's just that this practice is true gambling...then again if this drives you- go ahead, by no means i'm discouraging you, after-all it's your money. best of luck @ the tables.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 7371
Well done to you in undertaking this risky venture and having the nerve to do so. I hope you keep this winning run going but the trick is never to risk your whole bankroll on one game. It sounds like you know what you are doing and i wish you all the best for the future
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
Thats just variance or if you have proven records then moving up limits will be profitable but doing it to chase loss or bored my lead to tilt and you might lose all your roll. Did that several time and lost my roll and all my money. Anyway good luck hope you get a good sum!
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
I hear what you guys are saying. BR management is very important, I'm under no illusions about that, I've pokered for a decade.
It's not some reckless desperate money making attempt, simply I can make more at higher stakes. ROI is everything when you have little time. This is all about the risk of going broke vs the risk of staying grinding at micro stakes for months and turning over a miniscule profit. The risk is worth it for me.
If I got broke i can reload. But you might all be right and I might go broke tomorrow, who knows, that's poker. It's all risks vs rewards.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Posted by noonlion: I hear what you guys are saying. BR management is very important, I'm under no illusions about that, I've pokered for a decade.
It's not some reckless desperate money making attempt, simply I can make more at higher stakes. ROI is everything when you have little time. This is all about the risk of going broke vs the risk of staying grinding at micro stakes for months and turning over a miniscule profit. The risk is worth it for me.
If I got broke i can reload. But you might all be right and I might go broke tomorrow, who knows, that's poker. It's all risks vs rewards.
I can feel you.. If i have a bankroll lets say 20$ (Like I won on the christmas thing) I have no patient to grind 0.50$ Ill just go for it and hope for the best and when I hit a good bankroll then ill start to grind hopefully you will grind at some point btw my I have 1$ left on party poker so didn't turn out good! But there so many fishes im thinking about putting money there.. But the 3% fee from withdraw they are taking is a lot... :/
but since mobpoints don't grow on trees i have to add something to the story as well- the smaller your bankroll= the bigger your problems (generally same rule applies to salami), you are taking bigger risks, and while it may pay off- it's just that this practice is true gambling...then again if this drives you- go ahead, by no means i'm discouraging you, after-all it's your money. best of luck @ the tables.
hopefully you will grind at some point 
btw my I have 1$ left on 
