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Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
This is copy pasted but read it. We had discussion about this some time in the past and now i know im not alone It is little long but read it its worth the time.
THE ACTION FLOP THEORY IN ONLINE NL TEXAS HOLDEM TOURNAMENT POKER
Action Flop Theory: Hands that are deliberately set up by an online Poker room to handicap the best players and benefit the bad players.
Texas Holdem tournaments on the internet attract literally thousands of players everyday to sites that offer every kind of tournament you can imagine. Freerolls with small, and sometimes very high, cash prizes, buyins from 10 cents to $1000.00, satellites to major land based tournaments, bounty tournaments, freeze outs, you name it, and you can find it. And everyone who plays online has some incredible bad beat stories - one out hands hitting on the river, etc, seemingly in much greater mathematical probability than seems possible.
This is where the "Action Flop" Theory comes in. Paul Phillips is credited with coining the phrase on the World Poker Tour. It defines an almost improbable hand result, where some great starting hands are played agressively by skilled players that hit a flop nicely, but end up losing on the river to a vastly inferior hand. The classic badbeat suckout.
I have statistically tracked a number of sites as I play them. And on certain sites (to remain nameless, but catch me in a game sometime, and I might spill the beans) there is most definitely a higher proportion of Action Flops near the bubbles. But first, lets make a note here. Cards dealt on the online casinos are NOT randomly dealt. A true random deal is mathematically impossible. They can get close, but never truly statistically random. I am not saying any sites are rigged, but do please read on. It has already been established that some sites use different shuffles for free games and for cash games. These sites lead the free player to believe they are better than they are, hoping to encourage them to deposit and play for cash.
The theory behind action flops is quite simple – the action flop is a flop that will encourage the good players to get very aggressive in a pot and then the new or bad player makes an unlikely river draw to suck out on the good player.
And this happens! A lot! In fact, a lot more than it should, statistically.
So why do all these bad beats happen? This is what the Action Flop Theory explains.
The Action Flop theory is simply this: the online poker room wants the bad players to beat the good players. Not all the time, just at certain points in a tournament. Skilled experienced players know that bad beats happen, and they can accept them as part of the game. If they are winning overall in the site, they stay and just pick another tourney to enter. But a new player or a bad player who doesn't win once in a while will stop playing there. Thus no more poker room deposit money from them. The online casinos want to spread the winning cash prizes around, so they create action flops to do this, according to the Action Flop Theory. They deliver great hands to the good players who then boost the pot, and the bad player sucks out on the river.
Skilled and experienced winning Texas Holdem players tend to be very aggressive. They make value bets, forced calls against pot odds, high percentage semi bluffs, outright steals, and they slow play the fish right into the net. Skilled players know how to make the most out of every hand they play. Bad players are basically calling stations and have little knowledge of proper betting techniques. So if an Action Flop comes along, the skilled player has a lot of chips in the pot, and loses them to the bad player suckout.
In the real world of Texas Holdem tournament play, new and bad players are easily beaten by superior players. Most of them don't stand a chance to win in a live mult table no limit holdem tournament. They are “dead money”. In land based casinopoker room NL Texas Holdem tournaments the skilled players get most of their chips from the bad players as they knock them out.
So why is it different online? Action Flops!
The Theory says that "ACTION FLOPS”, those flops that bring big action to a hand and hurt the skilled players who are beaten by the river miracles. Online poker room owners know that in the general course of play, the highly skilled players would decimate the rest of the players. They need something to level the playing field or risk losing the majority of their players, and then the majority of their income. The Action Flop theory says this is the way they do it, by having Action Flops during the course of play. The better skilled players are penalized by chip loses and the new or unskilled players are rewarded with chip gains, and thus are retained as customers.
The Action Flop Theory states that Action Flops are the mainstay of the online poker room business model.
Action Flops let the winning players win far less than they would normally would.
Action Flops let bad players play longer and even win money on occasion.
Action Flops benefit bad players who continue calling on a draw against the aggressive skilled player.
Action flops keep the new or bad players on the site, and the poker room makes more money.
HOW CAN YOU AVOID FALLING INTO THE ACTION FLOP TRAP?
Action flops will occur anytime in NL Texas Holdem tournament. Generally speaking, the first few rounds are free of Action Flops, since this is the most dangerous time for the player, and the time you usually see the most all in players. No need for them here, actually.
As the game progresses, there usually will come a group of Action Flops. Watch for this as you play, and be very careful if you see the start of pattern of Action Flops. As a skilled player you probalby have an idea of who are the other skilled players at your table, and who are the new or unskilled players. If you see the later start to suckout, watch out!
And as I mentioned earlier, as you near the bubble, expect these action flops! They are there and they will come! Remember, the poker room wants the new players and the bad players who have survived so far to make the money bubble. And if you are a skilled player, they may not want you to make the bubble!
Your best tool is observation! Be very careful when on the button near the bubble. This is where the classic Action Flop is set to give you that great had to steal the blinds with, but may in fact be the hand that takes you out when the Big Blind sucks out in an Action Flop!
I can only add in the end "LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS"
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Germany
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 482
We are talking here about tournaments only or cashtabling too?. I would say that there IS such a system. How often i boosted free bankrolls of tiny 20-25$ into 500++$ in just few days, with bb per hour of unblelievable 150 or more. Most unbelievable things happen on clients, just to keep you playing.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
No thats just poker, bad beats happen, also long winnin streaks happen. When i just played online poker i also thought online poker was rigged, had many bad beats! But i know now that many of that bad beats was due to i wasnt playing right! Slowplaying AA ect is asking for a badbeat. I know now when you play more agressive your hands there are not so much bad beats, dont give away free cards to win little chips! I think the people who complaining about online poker are he ones that loose money on poker thats my oppinion.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
We are talking here about tournaments only or cashtabling too?.
This article covers tournaments only and it is applicable to cash tables but with little different methods. Ex. In cash tables you will get better cards when out of position because there is not too many stealing blinds attempts so that poor player who calls with bad cards can trap you and to make certain that you will not raise too much and that poor player will call. Since there is no bubble in ring games, I think it has to do with rake collected at the table.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Germany
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 77
i dont know if it is true what i do know though is that sometimes it really does feel like you have been set up when you lose a big pot,no matter hwo good you are there will be hands you just cant get away from and when you lose those you really feel bullshittetd at least i do,but maybe that is just a part of poker and maybe that is just the reason why people say bankroll managemant is important
who knows how it is the trith is i wouldnt be playing online poker if i was sure i dont have a chance ,but since im sure i have a chance i will play on AND whoever thought onlie poker rooms are not always trying to earn as much money as possible simply should try to open his eyes
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
Posted by doomdy: No thats just poker, bad beats happen, also long winnin streaks happen. When i just played online poker i also thought online poker was rigged, had many bad beats! But i know now that many of that bad beats was due to i wasnt playing right! Slowplaying AA ect is asking for a badbeat. I know now when you play more agressive your hands there are not so much bad beats, dont give away free cards to win little chips! I think the people who complaining about online poker are he ones that loose money on poker thats my oppinion.
We all know bad beats happen that's why it's gambling. However, if you think about it the general trend is you play 4-5 times as many hands online so you see 4-5 times as many bad beats per hour.
OP is not trying to say that this isn't a part of poker hes trying to account for the fact that there are far more bad beats online than is statistically accounted for in the normal progression of hands. I too have noticed this trend and have been the victim of some very sick beats that there was absolutely no way to avoid. Hands where I flop top set and the turn and river are running cards for straights or flushes because the other person hit middle pair and can't lay it down.
IMO online poker for the most part is geared towards the bad players not the good ones, because of the simple fact that most of the time good players will not make the ridiculous calls for the wrong prices and will not pick up the suckout pots that fish will. This is exactly what the OP is showing with the theory he posted.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
finally somebody found a reasoning why pokerrooms should rig their games, even tho a proper running online poker room is a money machine already. for me it sounds all like conspiracy. when i lost it was usually an exception, when i chased someone, it didnt work in many other times. (when im in the mood to gamble i tend to play double belly busters or backdoor flush draws with gutshot str8 draws or stuff like that. believe me: on the long run its causing loss).
only proof for the theory offered here is a statitstical proven (without saying how many hands were counted for example. thats empiric science. NOT! ) higher amount af so called action flops near the bubble. i dont know too, but i can niot see this happen in my poker games.
here the oppositional read. i copy pasted it too, hence to the strict link-rules in this forum.
***********************
What's the Truth? The facts about online poker myths.
FuckOnlinePoker gives you the skinny on what's fact and what's fiction. Hopefully this will rest your mind a little.
1.
The cards are not random. FALSE. Online card rooms use very sophisticated random card generators to deal each hand. The programs are written with several levels of sophisticated randomizing agents which produce better shuffling then a brick and mortar card room dealer. After the hole cards are dealt, the remainder of the deck is still randomized until the flop is called for, then the generator randomly selects the 3 flop cards from the remaining part of the deck and puts them on the board. This process is repeated for the turn and river, therefore the board cards are not even predetermined at the beginning of the hand. When online poker was in its infancy, Planet Poker's system of randomization was not very good, and keen observers were able to recognize a pattern and could therefore predict future cards. Since then the degree of randomness has been greatly increased so that it is now totally impossible to find a pattern. Online card rooms such as Pokerstars use independent auditing/accounting firms to monitor their card generators to ensure they are 100% random at all times. Dealt two of the exact same poker card 2.
Online poker is rigged because I see more 4 of a kinds, straight flushes, and full houses beating full houses then I would ever see in a casinopoker room. FALSE. The reason you see way more amazing hands online that you rarely ever see in real life is that when playing online, you play about 5-6 more hands per hand then you would at an actual casino. For example, in a given night, you may play 250 hands in a casino over 8 hours. Playing 8 hours online at just one table, you have played about 1,500 hands. If you multi-table, then you would be playing double, triple, or even quadruple that during the 8 hours. Therefore, with so many more hands played during that time period you have seen many more incredible hands, but it is relatively the same percentage of incredible hands that you would have seen in a brick and mortar casino. For example: 3.
This heads up pot limit omaha hi/low sit and go hand on Full TIlt Poker just seems like a perfectly set up hand. I flop the straight flush with a 2-3 low while my opponent flops top set with a 2-4 low. After we both check on the flop, the board pairs on the turn and all the money goes in. My opponents only 'out' is a 3 to win the low and chop the pot. The blank on the river ships me the pot and I win the sit and go. At first I am thinking to myself, that hand was almost too perfect, but then I consider that I play a lot of these heads up sit and gos and eventually a hand like this is going to occur. Though at first it may look unrealistic, but if you take into account the number of hands I play then it makes sense that even miraculous hands like this are going to occur. 4.
Poker sites are rigged because they intentionally create 'action' hands to make more money. FALSE. The thought behind this misconception is that action hands involving several players make more money for the casino because the pot is larger therefore the rake gets maxed out. This belief is totally the opposite of the truth. Online casinos make less money because of multi-way action hands. Normally, a heads up hand that goes to showdown will max the rake out. On the other hand, during a multi-way pot the casino rake has already been maxed out, i.e. the usual $3 once the pot got to $30, all additional money going into the pot does not benefit the casino. So the extra time it takes for an action hand to be played the casino is not making any additional money. Furthermore, multi-way hands usually involve more thinking, so players often take longer to make their decision. Simply put, it would be in the online casino's best interest if all hands were quick heads up hands that didn't have a lot of action or thinking involved. 5.
I am playing against a bot (robot, computer). TRUE. Poker bots do exist and are used by players. But, the fact is a computer can play great in games with perfect information, such as chess, where during each decision all the information is available. However, poker is a game of imperfect information, with players concealing their hole cards and using varying betting patterns, it is impossible for a bot to know what is the correct play everytime. Currently, the bots that people use are very unsophisticated and normally lose consistently. They consistently make the wrong decision and in online poker, consistently making the wrong decision brings financial ruin. Recently, top poker pros played against the best poker computer in the world in heads up matches, the pros beat the computer program during the competition proving that even the most advanced computers are still incapable of playing against skilled poker players. Furthermore, online poker rooms and players often detect accounts using bots - sometimes its as obvious when a player plays for 30 hours without a bathroom break or never chats- and those accounts get banned. See Bots for more info. 6.
Multi-accounting occurs in online poker tournaments. True. However, these players are getting caught and their prize winnings are getting revoked. See Multiaccounting for more info. 7.
Hackers can see my hole cards. False. With the exception of the Absolute Poker Scandal, the software running the online poker rooms have protections in place that make this impossible. The data showing the cards you have is only available locally on your own computer, and is only returned to the server during the showdown of a hand. 8.
Players are colluding. True. Unfortunately this has always been one of the biggest problems with online poker. Two, three, four or even more people can be exchanging information with each other during the hand via telephone, instant messaging, or being in the same room. They can trap other players in the hand and use the extra information to give themselves an unfair competitive advantage. However, their is some reasons to believe that this is not happening as often as one might expect. First, the online casinos keep amazing records of every hand played. These hand histories can be analyzed both manually and automatically by computer programs to determine whether two accounts are playing an unreasonable amount at the same table together. These account get flagged and closed down. Therefore, for collusion to work the two cheaters would have to play a significant amount of hands at different tables, and with most colluders cheating because they can't win normally without cheating, they usually lose their money at the other tables anyway. The hand histories also can show when a hand is played abnormally. For example, if the flop is AQ6 and three people are in the pot, one with AA, one with AQ, and one with 66, and the one holding AQ folds unrealistically on the flop, that would be telling evidence that he was communicating with the player with AA. Or, if with the same AQ6 flop, one player has the AA, one has K7, and the other A6, and the player with K7 reraises over and over again but folds before the showdown essentially making the 66 player lose as much as possible, then that is strong evidence that the AA and K7 were trapping the 3rd player with A6 to win as much money as possible. When the hand is reviewed, it is glaringly apparent that the two players were working together, the online casino then shuts down the two accounts and the money is returned to the player who was cheated. Additionally, colluders usually play at the higher stakes where they can make the most money, so low stake games are normally free of collusion. See collusion for more info. 9.
After cashing out I always seem to lose, is this something the site is doing to penalize me for cashing money out of the online poker site? False. It is just merely normal fluctuations, however, thinking with this mentality may make you play differently and cause you to play differently. Read this great article on the truth about the cashout curse by a World Series of Poker bracelet winner.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Poker sites are rigged because they intentionally create 'action' hands to make more money. FALSE.
I thought it was main reason for action hands but i never looked at this from their point of view. Creating action hands to make poor players stay at the site is more likely. So that reason about rake cap is not valid they don`t care about $10 or $100 in rake if they know you will play for at least a month more at their poker room.
Have you ever really tried to play your strong hands before the bubble or you play either allin or fold. I lost numerous times before the bubble and believe me those cards were not mediocre when i am prepared to risk getting ITM. AA AKs only, not even A-Qs if i am not chip leader at the table. If i have chip lead at the table so big that noone can take more than 1/3 of my stack then i try to play but rest of the time it is same as i am shortstack. Getting KK in critical moment can get you out of tourney, and not once have ive been wrong to fold them. Either opponent had AKs or AA, but Ace was a must and it did hit a flop.
EDIT: As for collusion part of your post. Does folding KK in right moment qualify for collusion. By your post it does, but believe me when i say it will never happen in this lifetime. And that A-Q example is maybe valid for some donk but real poker player knows when to HOLDEM and when to FOLDEM. Here is another video of collusion if that post were true. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZdGTVAalE
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
indeed the article i posted is dealing with the older explanation why pokerrooms rig their games. bottomline is (and stays): a pokerroom will reach no state of maximized winnings with manipulated action hands. and yeah. they want to keep all the players, also the poor ones. and when you look close: they do with promotions. freerolls for the donkeys, bonus points for the frequent players etc.
i just cant believe a sane and already well earning man takes the risk to disgust his regulars and go to jail to have more fish on the site. ive got to admit that the things many players notice must have a reason.
from my experience this uncommon patterns start happening to me when i play too loose. i get too many calls then. and AA is just a pair as much as AK has rarely much more then a 50/50 chance to win. AA has only 80 percent (4 outa 5) chance to win preflop i think. of course you will have rows of 4 or 8 times where they loose or hold up. of course you remember the painfull hands (the ones that bubbled you are in this category i guess) better then the others.
preflop allin is always a gamble. preflop slowplay now is dangerous too, since it encourages opponents to stay in with weaker hands. what you guys suffering rigged hands need to try in my oppinion is to balance your poker better. or learn limit stud
EDIT: when you play tight the superagressive chipstack also might have already 5 times as many chips when you finally draw KK. and sucks out, 1 in 5 times at least, on you. keep that in mind before screaming its all rigged.
earlier today i was cracking flopped 2 pair with A high and a backdoor flush draw. was there a pattern? no, i normally loose this hands if i am not able to push my opponent out (my mistake. i was not putting him on top 2 and did not lay down to his wonderfull reraise bec i had the mood to gamble a bit. on the turn i got the flush draw and some str8 outs. THIS is how it happens. and yeah: he was pissed like hell )
i like the discussion here tho. good points on both sides and no hysteria. vive le mob!
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
There is no balance in online poker you will always have calling stations playing any 2 cards and sucking out. Happens to me all the time. I can play my big hands aggressive and I can bluff in the right spots but when most people playing online have no concept of what a check-raise is playing legit poker online doesn't work.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by pokerpaul198: There is no balance in online poker you will always have calling stations playing any 2 cards and sucking out. Happens to me all the time. I can play my big hands aggressive and I can bluff in the right spots but when most people playing online have no concept of what a check-raise is playing legit poker online doesn't work.
i disagree. there is a balance you can find to have an image like a rock. even on cent levels or in freerolls. i rarely meet the person calling anything, all the time with any 2. and if so they always get exploited. sometimes after the third or fourth rebuy, but thats what bankrollmanagement is for i think.
------------ another theory is that the players screaming "RIGGED!" are just allin too often. try pot raises and fold to maniac betting on draw heavy flops maybe.
myself thinks also some players just have awesome reads. one example: guy before me plays allin. he can be put on a big ace, since he plays tight and slowplays big pairs. myself is a very decisive player. i am holding A 10. after uncommonly requesting time i fold. the guy in the big blind can easily put me on an weaker ace here, if hes good. and call with his 8s, suited connecter or 10 J with good odds.
i saw suck outs like this several times. almost always the guy with AK was really pissed; he wasnt putting me on ace and did not understand how one can call him with 9 high and win.
------------
Posted by Poeinkie: mmm maybe that's why i lost a KK hand against a 57 not that i see myself as a good player but i did had the most money at that table
and heres another example. many bigstacks start bullying, so i call em too with 7 8 suited or something. sometimes i run into strong hands. and correct me please (i have no odds calculator by the hand), but 5 7 suited has a 20 percent chance against a better pair, doesnt it?
i wish i had such a quote with dating supermodels. 20 percent are tasty!
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
That's because those are not good calls. Calling when you know you are behind is not good poker.
Plus your reasoning that people saying rigged are allin too often, what the **** else are you supposed to do when you know you flopped the best hand and the other person in the hand pushes? Fold because you don't know what the next 2 cards could be? **** NO, you call and hope for the best but the best never happens to me they always hit 2 or 3 outers on the river. So don't feed me that bull about getting an image, finding a balance, adjusting my game or good odds because its all useless online.
The fact that online poker decks are not predetermined may prevent people from knowing what cards will come but it also ensures that it is completely non-representative of an actual poker game for the simple fact that after the hole cards are dealt there may be 32 cards left in the deck and the out the other person needs in a real deck could be at the bottom but in an online RNG deck this doesn't matter because it just picks a # and generates a card. So it may not be rigged but it isn't fair.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 481
Posted by umarplus: indeed the article i posted is dealing with the older explanation why pokerrooms rig their games. bottomline is (and stays): a pokerroom will reach no state of maximized winnings with manipulated action hands. and yeah. they want to keep all the players, also the poor ones. and when you look close: they do with promotions. freerolls for the donkeys, bonus points for the frequent players etc.
They wouldnt make more money? Whatabout all the SnG's? If they have rigged games, 1 game might take 1 hour, instead of 2 hours. When you lose you just buy in to another SnG and pay a new fee.. So this nr 4 in your pasted article doesent say anything. How can the casino lose money from rigging the site? If the site is rigged, the rake will be maxed out more often, than if its not rigged. This is just a reason why it COULD be rigged
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by pokerpaul198: That's because those are not good calls. Calling when you know you are behind is not good poker.
Plus your reasoning that people saying rigged are allin too often, what the **** else are you supposed to do when you know you flopped the best hand and the other person in the hand pushes? Fold because you don't know what the next 2 cards could be? **** NO, you call and hope for the best but the best never happens to me they always hit 2 or 3 outers on the river. So don't feed me that bull about getting an image, finding a balance, adjusting my game or good odds because its all useless online.
The fact that online poker decks are not predetermined may prevent people from knowing what cards will come but it also ensures that it is completely non-representative of an actual poker game for the simple fact that after the hole cards are dealt there may be 32 cards left in the deck and the out the other person needs in a real deck could be at the bottom but in an online RNG deck this doesn't matter because it just picks a # and generates a card. So it may not be rigged but it isn't fair.
i just added a potsize suggestion for the "dont go allin too often thing i wrote" felt like you i cant just come round the corner and tell folks they suck without giving an idea what you like better. this potsize-thing actually worked very good for me. you can adjust the bets a bit too to produce over- or underbets
this said. i feel like you. you can try it all, play premium poker and still this donkeys hit their overaverage of successfull chases in heavy rows each now and then. the answer is disciplined bankrollmanagement i think. just look up some pro articles available on the net if you wanna have some suggestions. i liked one "Jesus" Ferguson wrote on this topic
and still... you have that with NL Holdem. i wont deny that. and in my case i tilt sometimes so bad that i give my roll a bad swing. i play more limit games and stuff meanwhile and reduced NL Holdem to Sit and Gos and occasional good value tourneys. but e1 needs to find his own way i guess. so please take all my posts just as an oppinion.
your remark on the RNG i dont get. the chance that the winning card does not appear is just more random not higher or lower, isnt it? always guessed thats a good thing and not doing much more then producing a cleaner statistic.
------------
Posted by etna2007:
Posted by umarplus: indeed the article i posted is dealing with the older explanation why pokerrooms rig their games. bottomline is (and stays): a pokerroom will reach no state of maximized winnings with manipulated action hands. and yeah. they want to keep all the players, also the poor ones. and when you look close: they do with promotions. freerolls for the donkeys, bonus points for the frequent players etc.
They wouldnt make more money? Whatabout all the SnG's? If they have rigged games, 1 game might take 1 hour, instead of 2 hours. When you lose you just buy in to another SnG and pay a new fee.. So this nr 4 in your pasted article doesent say anything. How can the casino lose money from rigging the site? If the site is rigged, the rake will be maxed out more often, than if its not rigged. This is just a reason why it COULD be rigged
haha. you are playing devils advocate here, eh?
of course you cand always find a way to use it for your advantage if you have control of something like this. and you never know...
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
Ok pay attention I am going to explain this one more time.
If the flop comes down and I have position, lets say I flop top 2 pair just for example. The person to act first pushes allin for a similar amount to my stack. Now what do I do because I can't make a pot sized bet? So I call feeling pretty confident that my hand is good and we will say villain has some random 3-6 outer on the river.
So the percentage of him hitting his hand at this point is approximately 6-15% but I don't in any way shape or form win 85-94% of these pots. I in fact lose a far greater portion of these pots than I win and trust me this is not selective memory because of bad beats this is my poker tracking software telling me this.
But as much as I play I cannot come up with a way around it because I am not making the bad decisions. If I am reasonably sure that my hand is good and the math works out I will call regardless of the bet. So I can come up with no other reason for the amount of times I get my money in good and lose to anything but the site and it's RNG because I have never seen stretches so bad in live poker for so long where nothing works.
The RNG comment just think about it. If you have 3 outs on the river and in a live hand those 3 cards are all in the botoom 3rd of the remaining cards there is no way they are going to hit the board and you lose. Now online your 3 outs have a random # assigned to each of them and the RNG simply picks a # when it is prompted to and has no preference for location and BAM your 3 outer hits on the river online.
------------ Like I said about the RNG it might make it much harder to cheat the deal but it makes it completely non-representative of real poker.
not that i see myself as a good player but i did had the most money at that table 
)
always guessed thats a good thing and not doing much more then producing a cleaner statistic.
