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Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
I know my points are valid and so are yours but it makes me angry when I get those comments that try to give me pointers on my game when I know I am playing correctly.
If they made live pokertrackers than no doubt mine would look exactly the opposite of my online stats and I play the same type of poker for both but calling with the better hand and getting my money in ahead simply doesn't work for me online and I cannot pinpoint the problem to adjust for it.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by pokerpaul198: I know my points are valid and so are yours but it makes me angry when I get those comments that try to give me pointers on my game when I know I am playing correctly.
sorry man. that was ment more in general, not so much aimed on you personally. i am aware that i have no clue how you play; chance is big that you are even a much better player then me. sometimes i just love kicking oppinions
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
lol I wouldn't say I am a better player than anyone else but its really annoying when I play better cards and play them better than my opponents and still lose to stupidity. I would have no problem losing if my money was in behind or if the person had a right to call with the cards they have for the price they pay.
Posted by pokerpaul198: lol I wouldn't say I am a better player than anyone else but its really annoying when I play better cards and play them better than my opponents and still lose to stupidity. I would have no problem losing if my money was in behind or if the person had a right to call with the cards they have for the price they pay.
The point is that everyone has the right to call with anything. I know how frustrating it is to encounter bad beats, but if You really believe in the action flop theory then You have to file a law suit against the poker room.
And if You have a problem with loosing after putting Your money in as a favorite then poker is the wrong game for You. Poker is about luck and skill, but if someone gets lucky then even the best player can`t do anything about it.
Another thing is realize is that I read sooooo many posts in poker forums that claim bad beats happen far more often than they should statistically, but I never saw someone posting their hand histories to proof that.
Just look at it from a different perspective. Bad Beats and Suckouts mean that You played better than Your opponent, because You went in as a favorite. So in the long run You will make money of those opponents.
If you have 3 outs on the river and in a live hand those 3 cards are all in the botoom 3rd of the remaining cards there is no way they are going to hit the board and you lose. Now online your 3 outs have a random # assigned to each of them and the RNG simply picks a # when it is prompted to and has no preference for location and BAM your 3 outer hits on the river online.
The only difference this makes is that in a real game You loose the hand right after the dealer shuffeled the cards while online You loose the moment the river card is dealt. It does in no way affect the outcome, it doesn`t change odds.
You say You loose more hands than You should statistically. Have You taken into consideration that You need to play about 5 to 10 million hands before You can expect a statistically correct outcome? There are 2.5 Million possibilities to deal You 5 cards in poker. Compare to a dice. It has 6 possibilities, but that doesn`t mean that by throwing it 6 times You get 123456 once each. It could be 666266. That doesn`t mean it`s a sort of rigged "action throw" dice. In fact the odds NEVER guarantee You any sort of outcome, and even a perfect RNG would not mean that Your personal statistics have to be statistically correct.
Joined: May '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 467
Maby your right:
Hand #157727F57D000046: $1 NL Hold'em Seat 3: leif*** (2815,00 in chips) Seat 4: letn*** (1175,00 in chips) Seat 5: Cunn*** (2880,00 in chips) Seat 6: panq*** (875,00 in chips) Seat 8: dend*** (2725,00 in chips) Seat 10: fochizza (4530,00 in chips) panq***: posts small blind $50 dend***: posts big blind $100 Dealt to fochizza [ 4d 4s ] fochizza: calls leif***: folds letn***: folds Cunn***: calls panq***: calls dend***: checks @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 7h 6d 4h ] panq***: bets $100 dend***: calls fochizza: is all in 4430.0000 Cunn***: is all in 2780.0000 panq***: is all in 675.0000 dend***: folds fochizza: returns uncalled bet $1.650 Cunn***: shows 7d As panq***: shows 5c 8d fochizza: shows 4d 4s # # # TURN # # # [ 7c ] &&& RIVER &&& [ 6c ] *** SHOW DOWN *** Cunn*** wins $4.010 with Full House, Sevens full of Sixes *** SHOW DOWN *** Cunn*** wins $2.825 with Full House, Sevens full of Sixes
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
This should fit into this theory, few questions, I see that you are chip leader at the table and I would like to know have you played tight before this hand happened? How many players were left in tournament and how many gets paid?
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Switzerland
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 210
Posted by umarplus: 1.
The cards are not random. FALSE. Online card rooms use very sophisticated random card generators to deal each hand. The programs are written with several levels of sophisticated randomizing agents which produce better shuffling then a brick and mortar card room dealer. After the hole cards are dealt, the remainder of the deck is still randomized until the flop is called for, then the generator randomly selects the 3 flop cards from the remaining part of the deck and puts them on the board. This process is repeated for the turn and river, therefore the board cards are not even predetermined at the beginning of the hand. When online poker was in its infancy, Planet Poker's system of randomization was not very good, and keen observers were able to recognize a pattern and could therefore predict future cards. Since then the degree of randomness has been greatly increased so that it is now totally impossible to find a pattern. Online card rooms such as Pokerstars use independent auditing/accounting firms to monitor their card generators to ensure they are 100% random at all times. Dealt two of the exact same poker card
EPIC FAIL. I don't know where you found this review but EVERYONE who works with computers knows that true randomness is impossible with random number generator such as computers.
Let's add this quotation from wikipedia :
By Wikipedia : "True" random numbers vs. pseudorandom numbers
Main article: pseudorandom number generator
There are two principal methods used to generate random numbers. One measures some physical phenomenon that is expected to be random and then compensates for possible biases in the measurement process. The other uses computational algorithms that produce long sequences of apparently random results, which are in fact completely determined by a shorter initial value, known as a seed or key. The latter type are often called pseudorandom number generators.
A "random number generator" based solely on deterministic computation cannot be regarded as a "true" random number generator, since its output is inherently predictable. John von Neumann famously said "Anyone who uses arithmetic methods to produce random numbers is in a state of sin." How to distinguish a "true" random number from the output of a pseudo-random number generator is a very difficult problem. However, carefully chosen pseudo-random number generators can be used instead of true random numbers in many applications. Rigorous statistical analysis of the output is often needed to have confidence in the algorithm.
Also, not every poker room uses permanent shuffling, which means that the cards in the deck stay in the same place once the cards are dealt. And these poker rooms don't have any problem, really.
@Predobar : It is easy to see : there are 6 players left and there are 10 seats. The most common 10 seats S&G structure is 1st = 50%/2nd=30%/3rd=20%, so it means he isn't at the bubble and he probably just got unlucky this time.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
I don`t know how you see that is Single Table SNG but I`ll take your word for it. Chip count fits. I do know how standard ST SnG payout is distributed.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: Australia
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1158
think you spot on with this post,it does happen,ive seen it happen,many times,had it happen to me and seen it happen to other players,the worst on the bubble AK,seen that crushed on many occasions,do we as players notice it more cauz we nearly in the money,mabie,i tend to fold alot near the bubble even with nice cards cauz you know they trying to eliminate players
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 215
Posted by fochizza: Maby your right:
Hand #157727F57D000046: $1 NL Hold'em Seat 3: leif*** (2815,00 in chips) Seat 4: letn*** (1175,00 in chips) Seat 5: Cunn*** (2880,00 in chips) Seat 6: panq*** (875,00 in chips) Seat 8: dend*** (2725,00 in chips) Seat 10: fochizza (4530,00 in chips) panq***: posts small blind $50 dend***: posts big blind $100 Dealt to fochizza [ 4d 4s ] fochizza: calls leif***: folds letn***: folds Cunn***: calls panq***: calls dend***: checks @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 7h 6d 4h ] panq***: bets $100 dend***: calls fochizza: is all in 4430.0000 Cunn***: is all in 2780.0000 panq***: is all in 675.0000 dend***: folds fochizza: returns uncalled bet $1.650 Cunn***: shows 7d As panq***: shows 5c 8d fochizza: shows 4d 4s # # # TURN # # # [ 7c ] &&& RIVER &&& [ 6c ] *** SHOW DOWN *** Cunn*** wins $4.010 with Full House, Sevens full of Sixes *** SHOW DOWN *** Cunn*** wins $2.825 with Full House, Sevens full of Sixes
These things keep happening to me
you played that terrible you should have lost anyway and as for the calls in a $1 tornament there standard top pair top kicker called straight called for $1
------------ just like to add i play more live than online and can safely say bad beats happen alot live aswell.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
here we go again about bad beats. This is action flop theory not bad beat theory. keep that in mind. How often do you see 3 or 4 players hitting flop in live games padod? That is the issue in "action flop theory".
I believe it could happen, if the poker room could hide this well enough they certainly have the incentive to "help out" the weaker players, so the rake will keep coming in.I could see this happening in normal cash games also. There are so many players who simply can't fold their flushdraws even when they have no odds of calling. In the long run this should cause these very weak players to go broke and leave the poker room. If the pokerroom would help them out a little by slightly increasing the odds that the flush will come on the river, these weak players will last longer and more rake will be earned. To investigate if this is really the case one needs a huge database though, millions of hands.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by Predobar: Yeah it happens but how often.
Didnt we discuss it before? You compare one slow life table to the much faster multitabling online play. Online you may play as many as 10 times the hands you could play life. So you see ten times the amount of ugly setups
