Joined: May '08
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Hello all the wonderful mobsters out there, this is your friend flashfaust01 from Japan, somewhere in Asia writing to you, wish a good day to each and everyone of you:
this is becoming an infinite thread (oh btw what's the point in using a strategy where you must have an infinite amount of money to win only infinite +1 unit)
I am very happy to be a part of such a great community, wish you the best of luck at the tables, off the tables, behind the tables, under the tables and in your life in general. Yours truly flashfaust01.
After reading the responses I see there is no point discussing this topic anymore, your arguments are nonsense. I wonder if you really think that nonsense or you are posting absurd posts intentionally.
Joined: May '08
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hey ddblt1970 wassup i think there is a lot good info in this thread and as usual some crap, nonsense and bullsh1t (thanks to one and only bullsh1t master pochui) but really Martingale is not a strategy that should be pursued in the long run. one can use it, but with strict limits- say only double up 4-5 times and then start over again, but still reversed martingale is way better.
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Posted by IceQueenAce: tbh just don't play roulette, you cant beat it ;p
not true- you can beat roulette and for that matter any game in a casino, the key to understand here is that you can beat it only in a short run, the longer you play- the greater house advantage becomes...
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Posted by ddblt1970: After reading the responses I see there is no point discussing this topic anymore, your arguments are nonsense. I wonder if you really think that nonsense or you are posting absurd posts intentionally.
Why don't you provide proof of concept that if you spun a wheel, an infinite amount of times, that you would eventually win?
There is no way you can prove that you wouldn't spin any infinite amount of losing spins.
Joined: Feb '13
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Posted by pochui:
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Posted by IceQueenAce: tbh just don't play roulette, you cant beat it ;p
not true- you can beat roulette and for that matter any game in a casino, the key to understand here is that you can beat it only in a short run, the longer you play- the greater house advantage becomes...
1. You have infinite amount of money and there is no table limit. 2. You bet 1$. 3. If you lose, you double the bet and you spin again. 4. You continue in this strategy until you win.
!!!important thing!!! - because you are doubling the bets all the time, at the time you win, you will have a profit
5. And because you have INFINITE money and there is no table limit, you simply CAN´T run out of money or break the betting pattern (which is indeed a winning pattern)
Of course, in a real casino there is no way it will work, because you don´t have infinite amount of money and there is always a table limit. A long losing period will eventually come and it will totally destroy your bankroll.
... 4. You continue in this strategy until you win.
I think you're right, but jessthehuman and other guys was talking about infinity. If you'll stop at the point where you won, that's ok, but if you'll bet again, and again, and again... You'll lose. That's what they said and you misunderstood the conception of infinity.
Joined: May '08
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oh right another chance to post in this infinite thread: @ddblt1970 "5. And because you have INFINITE money and there is no table limit, you simply CAN´T run out of money or break the betting pattern (which is indeed a winning pattern)" ok what makes you think that you will win in the end- ask yourself this question: you have infinite amount of money and no table limit, what if there is an infinite losing streak?
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Posted by ddblt1970: After reading the responses I see there is no point discussing this topic anymore, your arguments are nonsense.
What you mean is, they are nonsense to you because you don't understand what we are saying. I can see what you're saying seems logical but your argument is actually nonsense when you break it down.
First off, we all agree that in reality it doesn't work. This argument boils down to whether we can use maths to prove the simple system works. And already we are talking about infinity, which suggests that the system is flawed. I note that you challenged Jess on his ability to grasp math but have not offered any actual maths yourself.
You're basically saying "INFINITE margate bets with INFINITE money will lead to SOME profit". Actually infinity suggests every possible outcome in every possible sequence so at some point before the end of time you will be 1 million dollars up and immediately lose 1 million dollars in the next million spins.
You could say, ok I will stop when I hit a million. If I have infinite money and infinite bets I will eventually hit a million. True but this applies without the margate system. And you have no idea whether this "calculating for probability" should take a million or a billion or 100 billion spins so it's not exactly mathematical.
To really prove that margate works outside of the casino environment you have to prove that given x amount of money and y number of spins you have a higher probability of earning a profit than ending up with a loss. You could then say that even if I'm unlucky after x spins I should continue and likely make a profit. Multiply by infinity now and you have x/y profit, which is mathematically sound unlike (some profit at some point).
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Posted by ddblt1970: You would win this way:
1. You have infinite amount of money and there is no table limit. 2. You bet 1$. 3. If you lose, you double the bet and you spin again. 4. You continue in this strategy until you win.
!!!important thing!!! - because you are doubling the bets all the time, at the time you win, you will have a profit
5. And because you have INFINITE money and there is no table limit, you simply CAN'T run out of money or break the betting pattern (which is indeed a winning pattern)
Of course, in a real casino there is no way it will work, because you don't have infinite amount of money and there is always a table limit. A long losing period will eventually come and it will totally destroy your bankroll.
I fail to see how this proves you can't spin a losing spin an infinite number of times.
Using infinity to prove a point is stupid, because it's not a number, it's a concept.
You could bet red every time and spin an infinite number of reds and win an infinite amount of times.
however - you could also bet red and spin an infinite number of blacks, literally - for all of eternity every time you spin the wheel, it always lands on black (or zreo) you double you bets into infinity, forever chasing that $1 initial bet, but damn, seems god hates you and your hell is spinning black every spin, for all of eternity.
You can't just say "it would work with infinity" - because what you're really saying is "it would work if I chose a specific set of outcomes, that eventually netted me a win". No s**t.
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If you place your bet on black/red, you will win 2x your bet if the right color hits. This means if you hit the right color more than 50% of the time, it will be profitable. On the roulette board there is 0 (and 00) which means you'r color will hit less than 50% of the time ( --> not profitable).
I don't see how you make profit by placing infinite amount of -EV bets.
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Posted by djpremier: If you place your bet on black/red, you will win 2x your bet if the right color hits. This means if you hit the right color more than 50% of the time, it will be profitable. On the roulette board there is 0 (and 00) which means you'r color will hit less than 50% of the time ( --> not profitable).
I don't see how you make profit by placing infinite amount of -EV bets.
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/Thread I doubt it. Actually it is quite the opposit. This thread has still the potential for an infinite amount of posts. Discussions about the Martingale usually turn out this way.
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Posted by ddblt1970: You can't miss infinite amout of times.
Sure you can. Every single time you spin you have a roughly 50:50 chance of losing. To miss an infinite number of times, you just have to spin an infinite number of times and never hit a win.
It's incredibly unlikely, but put it this way - there is no single spin where you can guarantee the outcome, sure - you can say - the chances of losing 50 billion times in a row are incredibly unlikely, but you could point to a single spin within that set that offered better than the roughly 50:50 chance and you certainly couldn't point to the specific spin that was guaranteed to win.
Infinity is a set and it can contain subsets, those subsets can also be infinite. You're just picking a set of infinity that includes a scenario where you win. I can choose a set of infinite spins where you choose a scenario where you lose.
As someone else pointed out; you can't expect to bet an infinite amount of times on an EV- spot and expect to come out ahead.
Also - you mentioned you may win that $1, by having an infinite supply and yes obviously, the chances are you would eventually win that $1. However, the whole point of martingale is that once you win that $1, you start again betting $1 to win another $1.
The problem is, each time you hit that fatal run of losses, it will take you longer and longer to get back to even.
So, for example - if your whole aim was to win only $1 - most likely you will win the $1. But if u want to win $1M, but $1 at a time, along the way the chances favour the casino and the more you spin, the more you'll trend towards a negative outcome.
i think there is a lot good info in this thread and as usual some crap, nonsense and bullsh1t (thanks to one and only bullsh1t master pochui) but really Martingale is not a strategy that should be pursued in the long run. one can use it, but with strict limits- say only double up 4-5 times and then start over again, but still reversed martingale is way better. 
