yout85 is right though. Pokerstars is relying on their reputation a lot but the only really great things they offer is their huge traffic (for MTTs) and good program/servers. If they get too hungry for cash, then we as customers need to wonder if we should go play somewhere else. Thing is, the degen gamblers playing their 36$ spin n goes won't care about 2.5%... or 10% useless conversion fees
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
...Actually,...that's 0.0025% cheaper than what InstaDebit charges to convert between currencies, which is 0.0275...
Pretty much anybody who converts currencies is going to charge you 2% to 3% kinda thing...
I imagine they did that for a few reasons,... convenience, profit,...and sealing up loop holes how folks could convert for free,...send to another account,...then withdraw never paying any fees...
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 2064
Posted by demodawggy:
...Actually,...that's 0.0025% cheaper than what InstaDebit charges to convert between currencies, which is 0.0275...
Pretty much anybody who converts currencies is going to charge you 2% to 3% kinda thing...
I imagine they did that for a few reasons,... convenience, profit,...and sealing up loop holes how folks could convert for free,...send to another account,...then withdraw never paying any fees...
You cannot withdraw transferred money until you have paid that amount in rake... so for example, if I transferred $100 to you, you would have to wager well over $1,000 before you could withdraw the $100.
And with the conversion fees... the reason I put that in inverted commas before, was that they aren't actually converting anything. I deposit in £s and the amount appears in my account in $s... I play in $s, then withdraw again in £s. At no point do Pokerstars actually convert my money from one currency to another. So in effect they are charging for a service that they are not offering. It's unfair charging in the same way UK banks got into trouble for charging folks £30+ for going overdrawn, when it didn't actually cost the bank anywhere near that amount.
Pokerstars never have to pay to convert my funds, so they should not be allowed to charge for it.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
Posted by marqis: I'm not totally sure about this, but I think you can still get around paying the fee, by adding another currency to your account.
So when depositing or withdrawing, you'd do so in matching currencies, and you can move money between your currency accounts, for free.
I don't know if they let you withdraw in another currency than the one used to deposit though.
respect for being a shrewd mobbit, more of marqis'es will make the world a better place
Posted by marqis: Why all the hassle, if that's the case? What does it matter where you do the conversion...?
probably because even if this loophole exists, a big percentage of dudes will not use it, let a lone spot the fact that such currency conversion charges do exist
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 80 (M)
Posts: 3700
I just made a verification i ask PokerStars a 100.00 cash out and i would have get 109.55 in Canadian dollars. I went on to my bank sit and made same transaction and i would have 109.60 I really dont see where is the problem.
Posted by pinotte: I just made a verification i ask PokerStars a 100.00 cash out and i would have get 109.55 in Canadian dollars. I went on to my bank sit and made same transaction and i would have 109.60 I really dont see where is the problem.
The problem is that $100 USD is worth 112.51 CAD (google it). This is 2.5% more than what you'd get when cashing out. Last week you would really have gotten this 112.51 CAD (assuming the exchange rate was the same then), but now Pokerstars takes this 2.5% fee.
Think about how much this means in terms of how profitable you are. Consider that you already pay rake for the privilege of playing there, about 5%, and how hard it is to make a profit because of this (and how insanely much this actually this is; is there any other software you'd pay hundreds of dollars each year for?).
Only a small percentage of players are winning players. I suppose that this 2.5% extra fee, will make it that much harder.
The point is not even that it is now more expensive, but that they just changed the rules without notice. Effectively they just stole 2.5% of your bankroll. For me, had I have been made aware a few moths ago, I would have withdrawn my bankroll, saving me over $50.
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Posted by pochui:
Posted by marqis: Why all the hassle, if that's the case? What does it matter where you do the conversion...?
probably because even if this loophole exists, a big percentage of dudes will not use it, let a lone spot the fact that such currency conversion charges do exist
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 80 (M)
Posts: 3700
There is always a difference betwen buying and selling currency. Today my bank is selling US. 1.1510 and buying US.109.60 I dont know what you google to get the rate you are talking about.
PokerStars is doing business in US funds.
Any business doing business in US funds or any other currency will do the same. Dont mix up rake and currency . Same as another business if they sell you they make a profit and if you pay with another currency then they will do the same as PokerStars. Dont take the central bank rate for sure its different than the rate that banking system will charge.
Just for your information i worked 14years in the Canadian banking system i think i know what i am talking about in currency exchange.
Posted by pinotte: There is always a difference betwen buying and selling currency. Today my bank is selling US. 1.1510 and buying US.109.60 I dont know what you google to get the rate you are talking about.
PokerStars is doing business in US funds.
Any business doing business in US funds or any other currency will do the same. Dont mix up rake and currency . Same as another business if they sell you they make a profit and if you pay with another currency then they will do the same as PokerStars. Dont take the central bank rate for sure its different than the rate that banking system will charge.
This was changed by Pokerstars on 23 October. Prior to that you did not pay this fee (which was actually a very good service by Pokerstars, not offered by other sites). I'm not complaining about the fee (actually I kind of am, but that is another matter), but that they changed it without notice, effectively confiscating 2.5% of my bankroll.
112.51 is the mid market rate, this is what Pokerstars uses (but since 23-10 with an extra 2.5% markup), and still uses when converting internally (e.g. when you buy into a USD game with your CAD account, and what you get back when leaving that table)
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 80 (M)
Posts: 3700
Again you are wrong about talking a fee it is currency exchange they just changed the method of calculation you paid somethink or gain when you made your deposit depending of currency fluctuation. If you cash out again you could make a profit for the same reason. I just gave you an example of a cash out and a bank rate.
Posted by pinotte: Again you are wrong about talking a fee it is currency exchange they just changed the method of calculation you paid somethink or gain when you made your deposit depending of currency fluctuation. If you cash out again you could make a profit for the same reason. I just gave you an example of a cash out and a bank rate.
No. They changed it on 23-10. There is a thread about it on 2+2.
Prior to 23-10 you really got the mid market exchange rate without fee. Pokerstars was the only site doing this. A great service, that is now lost. I'm not expressing entitlement, though it is a shame they changed it, but I am expressing that it's wrong not giving notice about the change.
BTW I'm not talking about currency fluctuations, that has always been there; nothing wrong with that.
------------ This is the message from Pokerstars on 2+2, dated 23-10-2014:
PokerStars Currency Exchange Rates Hello,
PokerStars has made some changes to currency exchange rates and we thought we should provide a little context to the decision. PokerStars has historically applied the mid-market exchange rate from XE, and before that Reuters, for exchanging between USD and GBP, EUR, and CAD. That rate of exchange is simply not one you would have had from any financial institution or processor.
The policy change to introduce a margin on these currencies does move us more in line with the market, but we’re very confident that the new rate applied to your selected currency is still going to be extremely competitive. In fact, we’d say that it’s better than that offered by most banks, card issuers and payment providers.
The margin on these currencies, applied to the mid-market exchange rate provided by XE, will be applicable only at the point of deposit and withdrawal. There remains no fee to transfer between currency wallets in the PokerStars client, nor for joining or leaving poker tables in different currencies. We frequently review our policies across all parts of the business, which all go towards making PokerStars the safest and most secure poker site to play at, but we will post here again before any future currency exchange change goes live.
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 80 (M)
Posts: 3700
Posted by marqis:
Posted by pinotte: Again you are wrong about talking a fee it is currency exchange they just changed the method of calculation you paid somethink or gain when you made your deposit depending of currency fluctuation. If you cash out again you could make a profit for the same reason. I just gave you an example of a cash out and a bank rate.
No. They changed it on 23-10. There is a thread about it on 2+2.
Prior to 23-10 you really got the mid market exchange rate without fee. Pokerstars was the only site doing this. A great service, that is now lost. I'm not expressing entitlement, though it is a shame they changed it, but I am expressing that it's wrong not giving notice about the change.
BTW I'm not talking about currency fluctuations, that has always been there; nothing wrong with that.
------------ This is the message from Pokerstars on 2+2, dated 23-10-2014:
PokerStars Currency Exchange Rates Hello,
PokerStars has made some changes to currency exchange rates and we thought we should provide a little context to the decision. PokerStars has historically applied the mid-market exchange rate from XE, and before that Reuters, for exchanging between USD and GBP, EUR, and CAD. That rate of exchange is simply not one you would have had from any financial institution or processor.
The policy change to introduce a margin on these currencies does move us more in line with the market, but we�re very confident that the new rate applied to your selected currency is still going to be extremely competitive. In fact, we�d say that it�s better than that offered by most banks, card issuers and payment providers.
The margin on these currencies, applied to the mid-market exchange rate provided by XE, will be applicable only at the point of deposit and withdrawal. There remains no fee to transfer between currency wallets in the PokerStars client, nor for joining or leaving poker tables in different currencies. We frequently review our policies across all parts of the business, which all go towards making PokerStars the safest and most secure poker site to play at, but we will post here again before any future currency exchange change goes live.
Sincerely,
Michael Josem PokerStars Communications Team
Where do you see a 2.5% fee in this communication of PokerStars. And you said it was changed withouth notice i dont know where it was published but it is a communique from them.
@pinotte: I think the "loophole" discussed earlier should work; Add CAD as an extra currency to your cashier, then convert your $100 in the cashier to this CAD account, before withdrawing to your bank. If you do this you will still get the full 112.51 CAD into your bank account.
Prior to 23-10, this extra step was not necessary. Likewise, when depositing, do so into this CAD account.
I do think that only a small percentage of players will be aware of this "trick", and will incur a 2.5% fee each time...
It is limited to: Daily USD 3000 Weekly USD 5000 Monthly USD 10000
But that would work for me.
------------
Posted by pinotte: Where do you see a 2.5% fee in this communication of PokerStars. And you said it was changed withouth notice i dont know where it was published but it is a communique from them.
Much to the dismay of the 2+2 forum, they did not mention what the fee was, but it's 2.5% (maybe they hoped no one would notice...).
Yes it was an announcement after the fact by Pokerstars themselves.
Joined: Jan '13
Location: Philippines
Age: 57 (F)
Posts: 857
new owners of pokerstar dont need to do that charging fees on cashout withdrawal like this stupid partypoker well known as cashouting scammers .they should be friendly to attract more players and play more money as they can.in my review if posible make there policy we,players also make our self limited playin poker at pokerstars which is more worst because players need some extra savings about cashouting ,instead of continue playin players always aware of charges .however we do pay there rakes etc.its not annoying anymore and may come to reducing players with a bad strategy
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Damn!!
That really sucks, this was one of the things I liked best about Poker Stars.
Because I only play around 1 or 2 sessions of poker a month now, I no longer keep a poker 'bankroll', so I deposit and withdraw quite a bit.. Basically every 'session' I play now, I deposit before hand and (hopefully !! ) withdraw at the end.. and if I happen to go busto rapidly, then make another deposit.
I generally deposit anywhere from $100-$500 for a session/night and then obviously withdraw similar amounts (once again, hopefully - or more!).
One thing that get's me playing on 'Stars is the fact that I'm not punished for *not* keeping a roll on the site, whereas with PKR - every time I deposit or withdraw, I'm taken to the cleaners (for a lot more than 2.5% I believe).
So anyway, this sucks, seriously.
It means poker players are now greatly punished for not using poker sites as a bank and it should be well remembered by all; poker sites are NOT banks.. for soo fucking many good reasons.
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 126
NH Amaya
WP Amaya
GG Amaya
Amaya ftw
Goodbye Pokerstars
------------ This just occurred to me...
Does anyone know how Pokerstars manage the money that people deposit? Is it on account making more money, as an investment? Is this legal? Shouldn't it be enough to cover these ridiculous 2,5% commissions?
That really sucks, this was one of the things I liked best about Poker Stars.
Because I only play around 1 or 2 sessions of poker a month now, I no longer keep a poker 'bankroll', so I deposit and withdraw quite a bit.. Basically every 'session' I play now, I deposit before hand and (hopefully !! ) withdraw at the end.. and if I happen to go busto rapidly, then make another deposit.
Yes is sucks even more for those not having either USD, GBP, CAD or EUR as their currency. At least I think those are the currencies you can add to the web cashier.
If you have one of the supported currencies, you can avoid the 2.5% fee by the trick I described above...
Your way of deposit/withdraw per session is now very expensive...
Uhm pokerstars only bill u when u make a deposit with euro account, And u want to have it in $ in pokerstars if you do this before the money is in pokerstars, Then they will charge u, When u deposit in same valuta', and in Cashiere u wanna change from euro to $ it doesn t cost anything
This gos for the same if u have a skrill account in euro ore dollars,... Just transfer euro/$ before u withdraw And u safe again
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
take my opportunity to thank Mr. Curious much? for posting this loophole- deffo gonna use it all the time i previously was thinking about changing my skrill default currency to match usd, but this appears to be even easier, just wonder if it is possible to deposit in other than usd currency when going for some deposit promo... sometimes they list that you can deposit x amount of usd or y eur etc., but most of the times it's just usd?
Posted by pochui: take my opportunity to thank Mr. Curious much? for posting this loophole- deffo gonna use it all the time i previously was thinking about changing my skrill default currency to match usd, but this appears to be even easier, just wonder if it is possible to deposit in other than usd currency when going for some deposit promo... sometimes they list that you can deposit x amount of usd or y eur etc., but most of the times it's just usd?
There were a few deposits that activate another free cash, in the passed(maybe later again?) For example deposit 50 it says if you deposit 100 u will get 125 ore something, I never tryed it but i know lots of people that take advantisch 10 times they deposit and get extra 10 times You had to fill in for some kind of amount only then it would activate,(you had to try different amounts off deposits,some didnt work (but when u try and not confirm its was easy to find out what amount activate a bonus, It sounds strange but if u deposit 8 euro u get a offer for get 10 extra if u deposit more, And this also counted for more amounts some 200 euro deposits activated 50 euro ore something Maybe people can confirm here they had it a few times
