Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 218
I have mixed feelings on the matter. I firmly believe in any form of advancement in the poker community, and this does include opening the site to other forms of recreational 'gambling' (using this term loosely, as proper poker is technically a skill game'. It will add the aspect of other recreational players potentially filling up tables, introducing a whole new pool of players to 'play' (exploit). The influx of new players can never be a bad thing. The company that has taken them over is trying to broaden the poker community. But in my opinion, they are getting closer and closer to crossing the line that is 'poker integrity'.
As a site that has become ridicullously large, a company that survived Black Friday, and a company that has given people the opportunity to make a living doing what they love, my once great perception of PokerStars is slowly declining. In my opinion, adding casino games to a poker dominated (and orientated) is forcibly implementing aspects to the game that haven't been there before, and haven't needed to be. I understand that they are a business, and the sole goal of a business is revenue, but sacrificing the integrity of the purity of online poker to make a few extra (albeit potentially millions) of dollars has the potential to lose customers. Other poker sites have casino games (Titan Poker to name one), but no site with the potential and reach that PS has. I like to think the reason PS has the largest player base is due to its loyalty to its customers (and the most players. More players breed more players)., loyalty it is potentially sacrificing by attempting to add more revenue.
The introduction of spin n go's, the increase in the rake, have caused players (there was a big thread about joining and sitting out on the twoplustwo forum) to begin to doubt the integrity that online poker is representing. Understanding that they are indeed running a business, but businesses that run this long and are this successful should be looking after it's best customers, something I do not think that they are doing. Team PS pro Vicky Coren ended her contract (I think today) due to the eventual implementation of casino games, something she believes she does not think she can feel right about representing, and I agree.
I hope the money they can earn from these games is a big enough reason to continue hurting the integrity of the game, as making money is what poker is all about. I hope they remember who put them in the position that they are able to do this, and i hope they remember the players who have pumped in hundreds of millions of dollars through the company.
TL;DR introducing casino games hurts the integrity of the game players have spent years building
EDIT:didn't see the other post. Disregard this, and continue to acquire currency.
Edited by tonespoker (27 November 2014 @ 01:30 GMT)
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
They clearly want to attract more recreational players. That was also behind FT changes in advertising (pros out, regular Joe players in). This is fully understandable. An ecosystem based purely on sharks will not run for a very long time.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Fine if you don't mind those games. For players, that go on tilt easily, they are a permanent temptation to blow their bankroll. So to have at least one major room without them wasn't a bad thing.
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 2064
I think there should be entirely separate bankrolls for Poker & Casino, that you can't transfer between.... and you have to deposit and withdraw on each separately. That way you can only blow money on the casino if you have intentionally deposited money to it... and won't lose your entire poker bankroll on Blackjack after a bad beat....
No way they'll do this though, as it's in the player's favour, not their's.
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 218
Posted by yout85: I think there should be entirely separate bankrolls for Poker & Casino, that you can't transfer between.... and you have to deposit and withdraw on each separately. That way you can only blow money on the casino if you have intentionally deposited money to it... and won't lose your entire poker bankroll on Blackjack after a bad beat....
No way they'll do this though, as it's in the player's favour, not their's.
Really hope PS suffers from this. At least the casino games aspect. But I doubt it. Unfortunately, online gambling is being categorised in the same aspect as online poker, despite being charaterised as a game of skill. Oh well, see you PokerStars (moving to 888).
------------
Posted by mahdrof: I always respected POKERstars for being a POKER site without the casino games.
Exactly the point of my rant. Going to look for a site with integrity if PS increases the strictly gambling aspect to the site.
------------ My opinion is introducing the aspect of casino games to a site that has been made famous due to the poker spect is exploitation. How many new clients do they expect to sign up? How much can they expect to make on purely these casino games alone? Enough to cover the rake that they will lose when dedicated pro's cease playing/advertising? I'm never touching a casino game on the site, and the more I think about it the more angry I Get that they believe they can uphold the poker aspect whilst adding casino games.
^That comment is my reply to shokaku
Edited by tonespoker (27 November 2014 @ 12:45 GMT)
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
ok lets be honest with yourselves... those that say negative things about casino games in stars are just in the know that they do not control themselves. there's no need to talk big- integrity, social responsibility blah blah... really does it bother you that there will be another tab in the lobby- you can never open it in your entire life, are you forced doing that? stars are not to blame if some drunk dude jumps onto casino games and loses all his cash, does it really matter where he loses them- on stars poker, on other casino room, on hookers (highly recommended way). and besides op pointed out one good thing- potentially we can expect more donks on the platform... is that a bad thing? also more promos, maybe cross promos (like get x free spins for doing this and that on poker).
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 218
I believe that it is a bad thing when it affects the integrity that a purely poker site brings to the table (literally). I have the ability to control myself with casino games, but it affects the BR of others that can't. This directly affects my profitability and their ability to become better players. I'm all for the site making more money, but when they introduce pure gambling ALONG with an increased rake I damn sure have a negative opinion about it.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
Posted by tonespoker: I have the ability to control myself with casino games, but it affects the BR of others that can't.
exactly- dudes themselves are the only problem, a living problem... not the software/casino. there are hunters and prey in life... guess where dudes who can't control their BR belong?
Posted by tonespoker: This directly affects my profitability
how? do you mean that they lose their cash in the casino and have nothing left to lose to you, if that's the case then it's a logical assumption, but i guess casino games are gonna attract more volume of fish eventually and if you're a good player it will actually have a positive on your profitability
Posted by tonespoker: and their ability to become better players.
like you should care about them
Posted by tonespoker: I'm all for the site making more money
me too (as long as it's not my money)
Posted by tonespoker: but when they introduce pure gambling ALONG with an increased rake I damn sure have a negative opinion about it.
actually i believe additional income from casino may allow stars to keep same rake and maybe even lower it if casino really takes off. without casino there isn't really any way to increase you profit considering that you are already a huge market leader with not a lot more room for growth... probably betting integration is on the plans at some time
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 218
Posted by tonespoker: but when they introduce pure gambling ALONG with an increased rake I damn sure have a negative opinion about it.
actually i believe additional income from casino may allow stars to keep same rake and maybe even lower it if casino really takes off. without casino there isn't really any way to increase you profit considering that you are already a huge market leader with not a lot more room for growth... probably betting integration is on the plans at some time [/QUOTE]
Ok this I agree with, but I do not see a decreased rake happening. Never. It's been implemented and generally (with resistance) accepted.
dudes who can't control their BR belong at any table you, I or any +EV player (especially ones learning to be, like me). That's where we make our money.
Ok, so how do you do the thing where you break quotes down into seperate parts? Here I am trying to make points while emphasising my point on a whole new paragraph that's hard to follow.
For now I sleep. Will continue discussion tomorrow! It's time to watch misfits.
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 2135
i dont see the casinos
anyway , in Bwin i made 10$ into 120$ in almost 1 hour playing roulette but i lost all that after another session
in poker this wont happen you wont get a big win easily but most importantly wont lose this much this fast
casino/spin-n-go are pokerstars strategy to get dreamers or/and poker players on tilt to play and lose
to put it simply , they are trying to get more money they trying to get the average joe whom just lost with AA against 9-7 to tilt and go play the casino with the rest of his bankroll
Posted by tonespoker: but when they introduce pure gambling ALONG with an increased rake I damn sure have a negative opinion about it.
actually i believe additional income from casino may allow stars to keep same rake and maybe even lower it if casino really takes off. without casino there isn't really any way to increase you profit considering that you are already a huge market leader with not a lot more room for growth... probably betting integration is on the plans at some time
They have just increased rake; another unpopular measure after the ownership was transferred. I doubt they will lower it, unless forced by the competition.
I think it's amazing how much we are "willing" to pay for the privilege to play. It is much more expensive, than most games, that have development costs of $50 to $100 million... I think that creating a poker platform should be a tiny fraction of that, so why is it that we pay so much more to play?
Maybe someone will create a poker platform based on subscriptions, rather than rake, one day...
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 3207
Will points go towards vip status lkke party poker? I once turned 200$ into 5500$ and back to 0 in one day at party. I made 11000 points and was paladium member for the month. Used 9000 points for a 600$ bonus and wasted the rest. It was a horrible feeling but a fun day. Its the same day i played a 11$ rebuy and won 600$ too http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...
Heres a pic in the middle of my winning streak. I made a post wanting to transfer a little over 2k to pokerstars probably because i knew i would lose it all and of course i did
------------ The second pic is my paladium member status. I may have been paladium elite not sure its the purple key. Notice theres only 40$ left and next to no points lol
Joined: Mar '14
Location: Slovenia
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 255
Posted by arsenej1: Will points go towards vip status lkke party poker? I once turned 200$ into 5500$ and back to 0 in one day at party. I made 11000 points and was paladium member for the month. Used 9000 points for a 600$ bonus and wasted the rest. It was a horrible feeling but a fun day. Its the same day i played a 11$ rebuy and won 600$ too http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id...
Heres a pic in the middle of my winning streak. I made a post wanting to transfer a little over 2k to pokerstars probably because i knew i would lose it all and of course i did
------------ The second pic is my paladium member status. I may have been paladium elite not sure its the purple key. Notice theres only 40$ left and next to no points lol
Not my finest moment but one ill always remeber
we all have the same dream and when winning we lose our minds, our proper judgement.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 3207
Yup i remeber being around the 3000$ mark and thinking i wont win no more and quit. Then i remeber hitting 5500$ and tginking the same lol then looking down at 0000000 and was like fucccccccckkk. O well it was fun. I was playing unicorns at 0.50 a hit and ended playing 125$ a hit. The adrenaline rush was intense
